LEOs vs Civilians: Gun Confiscation

[Riot]

A year ago this month I posted a poll in policelink.com asking if LEOs would confiscate your firearms...this was the question.

If a law came into effect that a specific type of weapon was deemed illegal; you were then given a list of peoples' names with addresses and the serial number(s) of the firearm(s) with instructions to confiscate the weapon(s), what would you do?



Yes, I know- this is a loaded question...but I don't think we should beat around the bush anymore. Obama might not be interested in our guns at the moment, but what about next term? What if things get really hairy with our economy and people start looting and shooting each other? For those of you that say it wont happen....all I have to say is look at what happened with New Orleans after Katrina. So I ask, what would you do as a Law Enforcement professional?

The poll answers were as follows...

I would do what I was ordered to do, it is the law and I enforce the law.(7 Votes)
I would refuse to confiscate any weapon from any law abiding citizen, regardless of what some piece of paper said.(10 Votes)
This is crazy, that would never happen!(1 Vote)
I would quit, transfer or move immediately because it might get really bad for us LEOs out there and I don't want to be caught in the political crossfire.(0 Votes)
Other (please state in reply below)(4 Votes)

When I started this poll a year ago, I honestly didn't intend to post it to "the gun community" as it were. And although I didn't get near as many people to answer the poll as I wanted, I was enlightened to know that there are LEOs out there on the side of the oath that they took.

Most stated that they would just let the BATFE figure out their own mess they started if that ever happened...some, however, stated that they would follow the law to the letter.

I started this thread to let gun owners know that all those that were the uniform are not against you or the Constitution. There are many out there that would fight these types of laws, even albeit silently/passively.

Nevertheless, there are those out there that believe civilians don't need guns...and that civilians carrying guns are nothing more than "cowboys" or "cop wannabes".

The thread I started can be found HERE. But you need LEO access to get to it, so most of you will just have to take this thread as my word.


Gun owners hate the stereotypes of "cop wannabes" and "cowboys" just as much as LEOs dispise being grouped with the corrupt few within their ranks. Not all LEOs are bad, just as not all gun owners are...there are few amung both groups that make them all look bad. I state this simple fact because too many times I see anti-LEO comments on gun forums and from Libertarian/Constitutionalist groups alike...this type of prejudice is just what is going to split the gun community from each other and from sympathetic LEOs from our point of view as well.

Instead of trying to distance ourselves from LEOs, we should be seeking out the fact that we have a common goal- to protect the Constituion.

Again, I ask that the anti-LEO comments in this forum stop...it isn't a matter of posting your opinion as much as it is alienating those that are actually on our side.


Edit: just to add, I will be removing those that I've deemed "anti-LEO" to kinda give people a second chance around here. So feel free to post your thoughts on this.

*Riot Out*

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[ZachS]

Again, I ask that the anti-LEO comments in this forum stop...it isn't a matter of posting your opinion as much as it is alienating those that are actually on our side.

If you don't like it, don't listen to it. You can post all the polls you want about how some portion of LEO's will allegedly respect our 2nd Amendment rights if and when they're asked to violate them, but almost every LEO in this country violates citizens' 4th Amendment rights on a regular basis. You have badges and guns, and almost all of you have union/civil service protection, early retirement, and better disability/workers' comp than French bureaucrats. Yeah, it's hard work and sometimes dangerous. So is driving a truck or working in a convenience store. Deal with it, start respecting the Constitution, and stop complaining when people get upset after a cop violates somebody's civil rights.

You're a grown man, and probably pretty tough.... I'd think you could handle a little bit of criticism, even when it's a little ridiculous.

 

[Father of four]

You all can read my posts and see that i have been hard on BAD LEO's. But I will stand with and even die for GOOD LEO's. I "believe" that most Leos in fact would take away our guns if they were ordered to just like the military would. Yes there would be alot of them that would not want too but I bet they would when push came to shove. Sorry but it has always seemed to be an Us Leo and a Them Not Leo standard. I "believe"it is that way and if the Law said to do it I believe they would enforce it.

My comments are never intended to bash Leo's. I call bad bad and good good. And if I do bad I'll admit it!

Why do Leo's think they are the only ones who have the right to own firearms? Why would they think I am a wanna be if I own a gun? They are not even considered in my decisions to own one. Except to be sure I own and operate it legally so they don't take it.

I am Pro Good Leo!
I am Anti Bad Leo!

 

[Riot]

If you don't like it, don't listen to it. You can post all the polls you want about how some portion of LEO's will allegedly respect our 2nd Amendment rights if and when they're asked to violate them, but almost every LEO in this country violates citizens' 4th Amendment rights on a regular basis. You have badges and guns, and almost all of you have union/civil service protection, early retirement, and better disability/workers' comp than French bureaucrats. Yeah, it's hard work and sometimes dangerous. So is driving a truck or working in a convenience store. Deal with it, start respecting the Constitution, and stop complaining when people get upset after a cop violates somebody's civil rights.

You're a grown man, and probably pretty tough.... I'd think you could handle a little bit of criticism, even when it's a little ridiculous.

You realize this is the exact stereotyping I'm referring to don't you?

You all can read my posts and see that i have been hard on BAD LEO's. But I will stand for and even die for GOOD LEO's. I "believe" that most Leos in fact would take away our guns if they were ordered to just like the military would. Yes there would be alot of them that would not want too but I bet they would when push came to shove. Sorry but it has always seemed to be an Us Leo and a Them Not Leo standard. I "believe"it is that way and if the Law said to do it I believe they would enforce it.
My comments are never intended to bash Leo's. I call bad bad and good good. And if I do bad I'll admit it!

Why do Leo's think they are the only ones who have the right to own firearms? Why would they think I am a wanna be if I own a gun? They are not even considered in in my decisions to own one. Except to be sure I own and operate it legally so they don't take it.

I am Pro Good Leo!
I am Anti Bad Leo!

Good post...I can respect that, FOF.

 

[CaughtSteelin]

If you don't like it, don't listen to it. You can post all the polls you want about how some portion of LEO's will allegedly respect our 2nd Amendment rights if and when they're asked to violate them, but almost every LEO in this country violates citizens' 4th Amendment rights on a regular basis. You have badges and guns, and almost all of you have union/civil service protection, early retirement, and better disability/workers' comp than French bureaucrats. Yeah, it's hard work and sometimes dangerous. So is driving a truck or working in a convenience store. Deal with it, start respecting the Constitution, and stop complaining when people get upset after a cop violates somebody's civil rights.

You're a grown man, and probably pretty tough.... I'd think you could handle a little bit of criticism, even when it's a little ridiculous.

Have to chime in here.

But it is posts like these that make gun owners seem like bubbleguming crazies! I get so tired of how people think that every LE is the devil. It's almost like the people bubbleguming are the people that can't pass a phsych test or back ground check. Or better known as a wanna be cop...

Maybe an officer messed up on something... There's a crap load of laws out there, it's bound to happen once and a while.

For the civi's who think they get treated like a child for telling someone they own them, or I pay for your salary, or I tell you what to do b/c I am the one paying for you. Or I know the law and you are in the wrong. Please think about what you are saying.

Rant over.

 

[slingshot1943]

I like Zack's post!

 

[SDR]

These people have families to care for, Bills,Mortgages and every other problem most other people have...I'm sure most people have jobs they have to do that they do not agree with,But they do it for the Pay Check...

I run a Repair Shop/Service Station in Lake Oswego , I have customers from State Police , Clackamas County , Lake Oswego , Portland... These People put their pants on just like every other person...These people make mistakes just like every other human,They just happen to be in the spot light when they make a mistake... The Officers that are a pain in the rear to deal with would be a pain no matter what job they had... I was a kid once,I did stupid stuff,I disliked the Police only because I was worried they might be messing with me over something I did wrong... In most cases if the Police are on your door step or the red and blues are flashing behind you, Something is wrong,They are just doing their job...DEAL with it... If you are in the clear, you will be on your way...If you have a nasty attitude they will return It as most of you would...If you are questionable, You know this,They are just doing their JOB...
They are human...Pass the attitude test, Be Respectful,You should be on your way...

I have been in the same vehicle with a guy that was pulled over for speeding,He was a complete butt to the officer,The officer returned the attitude,And paid him a bonus with a ticket...The guy that was driving complained until I had enough and simply said if you did not speed he would not have stopped you,You lied to him,You irritated him with your attitude and IMO you got what you deserved...

It is a tough dangerous job , A lot of politics,Every mistake is under a Micro Scope ... Treat these people like a human and your experience will be much better...

 

[soberups]

Outright door-to-door confiscation of guns isnt going to happen. It isnt logistically possible, and it isnt politically feasable. Even the neutral or anti-gun libs would oppose it. The standard "jack-booted ATF thugs and UN troops kicking down your door" scenario is nothing more than fear-mongering.

The real danger for gun rights is the "death by a thousand cuts". Our guns wont get banned...but they will slowly be regulated to death. The ammo will get microstamped, taxed, and registered into unaffordability. Guns will be held to impossible consumer-safety standards that are designed to keep tort lawyers employed. Child-safety laws, storage requirements, fees, background checks, limits on magazine capacity, mandatory training classes, zoning regulations, liability insurance....you name it and the nanny state will impose it. Like a frog that dies in a pot of water that is slowly brought to boil, our right to keep and bear arms will soon become nothing more than a 'virtual" right that exists only on paper but that no one can afford.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

Outright door-to-door confiscation of guns isnt going to happen. It isnt logistically possible, and it isnt politically feasable. Even the neutral or anti-gun libs would oppose it. The standard "jack-booted ATF thugs and UN troops kicking down your door" scenario is nothing more than fear-mongering.

The real danger for gun rights is the "death by a thousand cuts". Our guns wont get banned...but they will slowly be regulated to death. The ammo will get microstamped, taxed, and registered into unaffordability. Guns will be held to impossible consumer-safety standards that are designed to keep tort lawyers employed. Child-safety laws, storage requirements, fees, background checks, limits on magazine capacity, mandatory training classes, zoning regulations, liability insurance....you name it and the nanny state will impose it. Like a frog that dies in a pot of water that is slowly brought to boil, our right to keep and bear arms will soon become nothing more than a 'virtual" right that exists only on paper but that no one can afford.

Whew..........Spot on!

 

[snew]

It's almost like the people bubbleguming are the people that can't pass a phsych test or back ground check. Or better known as a wanna be cop...

There's jumping to conclusions.

 

[Jamie6.5]

I hope y'all are reading/listening and believing, because soberup's scenario is exactly how I believe it will happen too, and already is.
This path was started down long ago and it is the most likely scenario in the future.
I believe somewhere along the way there will also be a "breaking" point, where the ultimate plan to disarm Americans will become much more overt. I also believe it will come from an outside source like the U.N. The rumblings already exist.
We will be prodded to join the "civilized" world or some other such hogwash, but there WILL BE American leaders/politicians that will push for it. Hillary is a good example of this, as is the dominant political climate in Kalifornia.
Nationally, the uproar within the gun community may cause it to be shelved, and that will put "them" back on the path outlined below.

Outright door-to-door confiscation of guns isnt going to happen. It isnt logistically possible, and it isnt politically feasable. Even the neutral or anti-gun libs would oppose it. The standard "jack-booted ATF thugs and UN troops kicking down your door" scenario is nothing more than fear-mongering.

The real danger for gun rights is the "death by a thousand cuts". Our guns wont get banned...but they will slowly be regulated to death. The ammo will get microstamped, taxed, and registered into unaffordability. Guns will be held to impossible consumer-safety standards that are designed to keep tort lawyers employed. Child-safety laws, storage requirements, fees, background checks, limits on magazine capacity, mandatory training classes, zoning regulations, liability insurance....you name it and the nanny state will impose it. Like a frog that dies in a pot of water that is slowly brought to boil, our right to keep and bear arms will soon become nothing more than a 'virtual" right that exists only on paper but that no one can afford.

 

[KRISSTDI]

Outright door-to-door confiscation of guns isnt going to happen. It isnt logistically possible, and it isnt politically feasable. Even the neutral or anti-gun libs would oppose it. The standard "jack-booted ATF thugs and UN troops kicking down your door" scenario is nothing more than fear-mongering.

The real danger for gun rights is the "death by a thousand cuts". Our guns wont get banned...but they will slowly be regulated to death. The ammo will get microstamped, taxed, and registered into unaffordability. Guns will be held to impossible consumer-safety standards that are designed to keep tort lawyers employed. Child-safety laws, storage requirements, fees, background checks, limits on magazine capacity, mandatory training classes, zoning regulations, liability insurance....you name it and the nanny state will impose it. Like a frog that dies in a pot of water that is slowly brought to boil, our right to keep and bear arms will soon become nothing more than a 'virtual" right that exists only on paper but that no one can afford.

I do see this happening as its started already in California and some states follow right behind California on almost everything.

The end of the world is only 2 years away right? So I wouldnt worry about it.. lol

 

[Jamie6.5]

As far as the poll goes, I think it was a worthwhile effort Riot.
Unfortunately I don't believe 22 total votes is a reasonable cross section of opinions. I don't know how large the pool of LEOs was you surveyed, but if less than 20% responded, you only have the "vocal" portion.

I must admit though, 7 votes for following "the law" represents nearly 1/3 of respondents, and that is scary in itself.
This is also why I believe the David Pyles incident is so significant.

 

[LibertyorDeath]

but almost every LEO in this country violates citizens' 4th Amendment rights on a regular basis.

Just because the average person and does not know that they have a right to refuse a police officer's request to search them or their property doesn't mean that the officer is violating any rights. It is up to the citizen to know their rights and what the police can and cannot do.

It is a game really. Not being smart enough to know the rules doesn't mean the other player is cheating.

 

[ZachS]

Maybe an officer messed up on something... There's a crap load of laws out there, it's bound to happen once and a while.

Saying something like this shows that you are willfully blind to the actual problem.

I'm not talking about obscure, technical violations of the law, but instead old fashioned illegal search and seizure, lying/shading the truth in court testimony, and roughing people up without any legal cause whatsoever. I know there are officers who don't do these things, but a substantial minority (perhaps even a small majority) do - some on a near-constant basis.

 

[ZachS]

.These people make mistakes just like every other human,They just happen to be in the spot light when they make a mistake... The Officers that are a pain in the rear to deal with would be a pain no matter what job they had...

When you make a mistake at work, you customer will have to bring their car back for another repair. It'll cost them some time, and maybe a little money - but you sound like the kind of guy who will put things right for free.

When a police officer makes a mistake, his "customer" will wind up injured, wrongfully imprisoned, or even worse.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I would do what I was ordered to do, it is the law and I enforce the law.(7 Votes)

That means coming to gun owners residences with SWAT teams.

Just as my ancestors did back then On Lexington Green and at Concord, I will do what I must do, and it will not be waiting until I am surrounded and alone.

No mercy to traitors

 

[ZachS]

Just because the average person and does not know that they have a right to refuse a police officer's request to search them or their property doesn't mean that the officer is violating any rights. It is up to the citizen to know their rights and what the police can and cannot do.

It is a game really. Not being smart enough to know the rules doesn't mean the other player is cheating.

Assert those rights sometime and see what happens. It's a gamble. Much of time time, officers will back down. Your chances of winning this game, however, go down if you're a racial minority, young, poor, have a prior record, don't have any other witnesses around, or simply use the wrong tone of voice when standing up for yourself.

Yes, police officers are human beings just like the rest of us. I'm not going to claim that I'd be any better when faced with the conditions they do. I think this is a training/supervision/accountability problem that starts with police departments and goes all the way up to the Supreme Court. It mostly isn't a problem with LEO's themselves - but it is a job that attracts more than its fair share of power-hungry bubblegumheads. If people can get away with breaking the rules, they'll break them.

None of that makes civil rights violations acceptable, even for a moment.

 

[The Quiet Man]

Cops will do what their chain of command tells them to do. New Orleans is a good example. Even the politicians in many states understand that, as evidenced by the large number of laws passed around the country making it illegal for authorities to confiscate legally owned firearms after a diaster.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Cops will do what their chain of command tells them to do. New Orleans is a good example. Even the politicians in many states understand that, as evidenced by the large number of laws passed around the country making it illegal for authorities to confiscate legally owned firearms after a diaster.

I wonder what WA State law is on this, because it is very important in these times