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My next question is can a rifled "Firearm" be used at TCGC's BP range or would TCGC classify them as a handgun?
Maybe this weekend. I won't be there long, just function testing a few single shot uppers. I have two uppers ready to test and one I have to take a dremel to before it's ready to test.When are you going to TCGC next?
Good idea. I think there will be some questions I will have surrounding TCGC's classification system versus the ATFs, especially as the proposed brace rule gets fleshed out.When are you going to TCGC next?
You can always stop by the clubhouse M-F between 9am-5pm (generally speaking as hrs can vary from time to time) and ask to speak to the CRSO. Be sure to bring examples of what you have in mind and what range you would like to use them on.
Photo examples are perfectly fine in lieu of
actual guns.
This question just shows the absurdity of the NFA.Can a "Firearm" like the Troy A4 be legally converted to a pistol or 16+ inch barreled rifle and then back to a "Firearm"?
Similar question for Mossberg Shockwave. Can a 18+ inch barrel and stock be swapped in to make it a shotgun and then be converted back to a "Firearm" again?
I agree.This question just shows the absurdity of the NFA.
-E-
I asked the RO this question in regards to braced pistols a couple months ago. His response was that they will consider how you are shooting it. For example, if you have a braced AR pistol you can shoot it at the GP rifle range if you are basically "shouldering the brace". It also meant you could not shoot that AR pistol at the short range pistol bays if you "shouldered" it while shooting. I am not sure if this is official and documented procedure now, but this is what that one RO told me.My next question is can a rifled "Firearm" be used at TCGC's BP range or would TCGC classify them as a handgun?
As I understand the rules, all scoped pistols with barrels over 5.5 inches can be fired at GP range with no requirement to shoulder them. Handguns are prohibted at BP range except for black powder cap and ball revolvers.I asked the RO this question in regards to braced pistols a couple months ago. His response was that they will consider how you are shooting it. For example, if you have a braced AR pistol you can shoot it at the GP rifle range if you are basically "shouldering the brace". It also meant you could not shoot that AR pistol at the short range pistol bays if you "shouldered" it while shooting. I am not sure if this is official and documented procedure now, but this is what that one RO told me.
You can purchase a Shockwave with an 18" barrel and it will still be a Shockwave.Similar question for Mossberg Shockwave. Can a 18+ inch barrel and stock be swapped in to make it a shotgun and then be converted back to a "Firearm" again?
Agreed, and that seems to be the case for a number of NFA firearms.It appears to be OK to reconfigure a registered AOW.
Can I change an AOW to a Shotgun and back to an AOW?
We recently received a copy of a letter dated November 2, 2010 that addressed this issue. The person wanted to know if they had manufactured an AOW with various-length barrels, could a stock and ...www.google.com
I was hoping that it might be like a pistol where you can legally convert it to a rifle and then switch it back to a pistol again. Do you have a link to atf info that backs up your belief?You can purchase a Shockwave with an 18" barrel and it will still be a Shockwave.
However, I do believe that if you put a buttstock on a Shockwave, it is then a shotgun and can therefore never be a "firearm" again. The "loophole" for the Shockwave is based on the fact that it was never a shotgun to start with, so no, you can't make it a shotgun and then return it to the "firearm" configuration - it will then be a SBS if you put a short (<18") barrel on it.
I have a brace on mine, and so far that is still legal. I have seen nothing, yet, in the new brace rules/etc., that address "firearms", only "pistols" and rifles.
That is the line of thought I would chart, since it is not a rifle, that you would be able to switch back and forth at your pleasure. However, I would not be willing to bet on that being correct either.I was hoping that it might be like a pistol where you can legally convert it to a rifle and then switch it back to a pistol again. Do you have a link to atf info that backs up your belief?
No, but look at the articles/etc. on why the Shockwave is a "firearm":I was hoping that it might be like a pistol where you can legally convert it to a rifle and then switch it back to a pistol again. Do you have a link to atf info that backs up your belief?
The really funny thing about a Shockwave is that, AFAIK, there is no designation on the gun itself as to whether it is a Shockwave. The only difference is the grip and the short barrel. So no LEO will know it is a Shockwave or a SBS unless he/she has a way to look up the serial number.That is the line of thought I would chart, since it is not a rifle, that you would be able to switch back and forth at your pleasure. However, I would not be willing to bet on that being correct either.
It would be so much easier on everyone if everything was simply made legal. Then you wouldn't need to consult an attorney to navigate the rules.
-E-
Good grief.The really funny thing about a Shockwave is that, AFAIK, there is no designation on the gun itself as to whether it is a Shockwave. The only difference is the grip and the short barrel. So no LEO will know it is a Shockwave or a SBS unless he/she has a way to look up the serial number.
That IN NO WAY is a suggestion to try to get around the law or sneak a SBS past the authorities by pretending a Mossberg 590 shotgun is a Shockwave when it legally is not. Don't try it.
I mention this because you may run into a LEO who has never heard of a Shockwave/et. al. and thinks you have a SBS. there is nothing on the gun to show him/her that it is a Shockwave.
Also, as I said, you can put an 18"+ barrel on it and that does not change its legality with regards to federal law. Mossberg started offering them with the 18"+ barrel because there are some states that otherwise see them as a SBS.
The official rules on this have changed several times in a very short period of time. Me and my 9mm federally registered SBR and also registered VZ-61 have run afoul of the RSOs for doing exactly what they asked me to do. I asked, they told me short range pistol in the bays was the only place. (It has a 5.25 inch barrel so just shy of the GP's rules.) Same RSO, whom I had shown the firearm to in photos, and described, came up to me and told me to go to conventional pistol, and when I went to conventional pistol told me to go to short range pistol. I went home at that point.I asked the RO this question in regards to braced pistols a couple months ago. His response was that they will consider how you are shooting it. For example, if you have a braced AR pistol you can shoot it at the GP rifle range if you are basically "shouldering the brace". It also meant you could not shoot that AR pistol at the short range pistol bays if you "shouldered" it while shooting. I am not sure if this is official and documented procedure now, but this is what that one RO told me.
They allow my front stuffer pistol from 1844 and hesitantly approve of my blunderbuss.As I understand the rules, all scoped pistols with barrels over 5.5 inches can be fired at GP range with no requirement to shoulder them. Handguns are prohibted at BP range except for black powder cap and ball revolvers.