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Legality of finishing an 80% AR-15 receiver

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Liberty97045, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    There are 80% receivers, finishing jigs and YouTubes aplenty on how to complete an "off the books" AR-15.

    I thought that the possession of a gun with no serial number was a crime.

    Am I wrong?

    If you say this is legal, please back it up with an authoritative reference.
     
  2. 2Wheels4Ever

    2Wheels4Ever Portland Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    Lacking some google-foo on this cold morning?

    Q: Is it legal to assemble a firearm from commercially available parts kits that can be purchased via internet or shotgun news?

    For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.

    The GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), defines the term “firearm” to include the following:

    … (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive: (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
     
  3. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

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    If you carefully read through this mess, you should get your answer of Yes it is legal.

    Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Firearms Technology | ATF

    The key part being this wording:
    Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs). However, we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future.

    So while yes, legal to build it, and yes legal to not put a serial number on it, there may be legitimate reasons to put one on it.

    It is illegal (would have to find the reference) to remove/destroy/alter a serial number on an existing firearm though. Which may be your confusion. That is very different than building one and never having put one on it. Many people own old firearms which never had serial numbers on them, they too are legal.
     
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  4. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    Thanks
     
  5. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    Well, you know that EVERYTHING you read on the Internet is true right?

    I feel that sourcing this kind of information from people here would be more reliable.
     
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  6. simon99

    simon99 Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Check out ares armor.com.....they run a great business and site.
     
  7. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    AK style weapons are even easier to build and there are build parties out there with everything you'll need except the beer
     
  8. BoonDocks36

    BoonDocks36 Oregon, in the boondocks Christian. Conservative. Male.

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    Go ~here~ "young Gun Builder" and Learn, ~All~ you need, about making guns, from Zero Percent, to 80 % I am a life time member, but have a very different log on there:

    Home Gunsmith Forums

    you can go in "free" and lurk in a few areas, join at various cost levels, and see more... Which are hidden to those that are in there free. Questions like yours is within a specific sub forum, just like NWFA has:

    Home Gunsmith Forums » Main Forums » Legal Side

    there are people there who have fought the BATFE&abc, DEF, and XYZ & won....

    for instance: by the "rules" an Open Bolt fire arm is illegal.... So one fellow, went about creating... A Single Shot hand gun, With Open Bolt, and having it approved, just to say Nah, Nah, Nah to the Alphabet Agency !!!!!!

    (Open bolts are like the original Mac-10's, and considered too easy to make full auto. The point made: how could a Single Shot be made full auto, so my open bolt design MUST be Legal.....

    HTH,

    philip

    BTW, passwords are very secure there, you may Not Choose your own, they assign you one from a very encripted process. They have at least one member who is a verified BATFE member, who is a "good guy" or did, last time I checked !!!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
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  9. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    yes
    yes
    yes
    Folks have been been building 80% AR recievers into guns for years. where have you been?



    Do your own research
     
  10. gaijinsamurai

    gaijinsamurai Beaverton Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    x2. When the "Assault Weapons" ban expired, I was living overseas. I ordered three kits, receiver flats, and other necessities via the internet, and had them sent to my dad's house. When I returned to the US, we built three (the middle and bottom shown, plus a Tantal), with the help of a friend. If you're new to it, just try to get someone who has done a couple to help you. Vendors like Gunthings.com are good sources of parts.
     
  11. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Geez coop44 - seems like an unnecessarily harsh response - why? You ask where he's been? You know, there are folks just getting into this for the first time. A year ago, I had never heard of an 80% receiver, but I learned, partially by participating in forums. Yes, they can do their own research, but honestly, what's wrong with asking the forum? There are more experienced people that already know where to look, and more importantly, what information is current and/or prudent. I've always thought of a forum as a completely appropriate place to ask a question when you don't know the answer. As far as I'm concerned, asking a forum IS doing your own research. Coming across like you did is why some people think of gun owners as unfriendly, rude or arrogant - why give them more reason to believe that? I would think a kinder approach would be more beneficial to the gun community. We have enough problems with the anti-gun groups hating us, so I see no reason to add more problems by making nasty comments just because someone asks a question. Just my 2 cents.
     
  12. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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  13. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    Did I seem harsh? Didn't mean to. I believe a forum is for casual conversation and discourse, perhaps even a cogent arguement or two, not authoratative research. The batf site has all the info you need, a simple phone call to a field office will get you all the answers needed on this subject.

    Maybe too many years of having to lead people by the hand, using really small words to try and get an idea across, has made me a little intolerant of the lazy trying to get everyone else to do the work. Am I justified being a bit short? Probably.

    As my old pappy used to say, "If the boy don't larn it fer hisself, it just won't stick"
     
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  14. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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  15. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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  16. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    It came across that way, but hearing what you have to say, I do understand your frustration. Honestly, there are some people that won't know where to start the search. I am a fan of pointing them in the right direction, such as pointing them to the BATF website, and suggesting they do some digging. That's beneficial to them as they become more familiar with how the whole thing works. Hand-holding isn't my favorite thing either, especially when I've done it over and over. But, I do try to make an allowance for the newbies - heck, we were all there once, right? No hard feelings, I just prefer the gun community keep it civil so that we attract more new people rather than turn them away. And every newbie is going to need some help.

    Take it easy.
     
  17. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Link worked for me and I'm likely going to buy some
     
  18. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    I dun larnt all about builtin mah evel blak riffle here on this fourum and ah did also buy me a buk with lotsa pitchers that halped me alot, too. Plus ah did also electronickally surf that there interweb that that feller Algore in vented somewhiles back. BUUUUUT when I got the lower thingie with the numbers on it they wanted to knows whether I was agonna bult a riffle or pistul with it. Ah said, shucks, if Ah'da wanted ta built a pistul ah'da bought a 6 cylinder shootie thang to go with it. Ah guess thet's why the riffle cost me an extra twenty fife dollers.

    Brutus Out
     
  19. Jabba

    Jabba Oregon Member

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    Hmmm. Anybody know of any 80% suppressor kits out there? And if you made your own, you wouldn't need a tax stamp, right? Those are just for every transfer.
     
  20. Nickb

    Nickb Moxee Active Member

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    Not to side track the thread or make anyone mad... If I was to get out the hand drill and files (sarcasm) and finish an 80% or 95% lower. Could I ship it to Portland (from Washington) to have the lower anodized? Or would it have to go thru an FFL?

    I think my best bet would be to have it cerakoted by a local shop but I'm curious about shipping a "completed" lower.

    Thanks.