Oregon Legalities of prototype firearms, and serializing?

Lesliet

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I was just wondering if anyone understands what the laws pertaining to making a prototype firearm are, both at the Federal level, and in Oregon? Is there a pathway to do this legally? I have some interesting ideas for building a competition revolver, but I don't want to turn myself into a felon... have been reading, or attempting to read, what I can find on the net, and it is a confusing morass of legalese and double-speak. As best as I can tell from the material on 80% lowers, it seems like if you complete one into a firearm, that's a felony at the Federal level?

Obviously, if I find a way to proceed with my ideas, I will need to talk with an attorney, but I'd appreciate you guys' input, to see if I will even go that far. Might be that I need to just find an existing gun that's close, and then modify it.
 

BillM

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As long as it's not a NFA item go for it. You can build it for your own use. I'm more than a bit curious what
you have in mind for a competition revolver that is substantially different than what is currently available.
What competition?
 
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Lesliet

Lesliet

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It's probably not practical for commercial manufacturing, since several of the ideas are patented by others, and specialized enough that it probably wouldn't sell well. What I would like to try, is an 8 shot revolver, chambered in 9mm or .38/.357 interchangeably, using the S&W lockwork, a Dan Wesson style interchangeable barrel system that allows the cylinder/barrel gap to be adjusted without having to cut the barrel shoulder on a lathe, ( Also allows relatively easy barrel swaps and cylinder swaps) and experiment with a few of my own ideas on improving the DA trigger, as well as a built in mount for optics.
The type of competition it would be useful for would be Steel Challenge, Speed Steel, ICORE, and USPSA. ( Might be useful for IDPA, but they are a bit finicky, and not really my interest, anyway.)
 
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It would fall under the same laws as those pertaining to a 80%lower. At this time it is legal. One issue of making 80% lowers illegal is, would it apply to 0% lowers? If it does, then any innovation, invention or improvement of anything firearms related would be relegated to those with government approval. It might even be considered as being "constructive possession" simply by drawing a design on a piece of paper.
 
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I'm glad they can't see into my brain! Lots of constructive possession going on in there! Pretty sure constructive possession pertains to firearms that are deemed to fall under various regulations making them illegal. I don't think revolvers fall under those regulations.
if you come up with anything cool and innovative, put it on paper, get a patent attorney and apply for a patent. Even if don't get a patent, it'll be out there that you tried to do the right, legal thing. That'll likely put a kink in any constructive possession action. You can always apply for a manufacturing ffl, if you really want to be legal.

An 07 or a 10 license
 
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BillM

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It's probably not practical for commercial manufacturing, since several of the ideas are patented by others, and specialized enough that it probably wouldn't sell well. What I would like to try, is an 8 shot revolver, chambered in 9mm or .38/.357 interchangeably, using the S&W lockwork, a Dan Wesson style interchangeable barrel system that allows the cylinder/barrel gap to be adjusted without having to cut the barrel shoulder on a lathe, ( Also allows relatively easy barrel swaps and cylinder swaps) and experiment with a few of my own ideas on improving the DA trigger, as well as a built in mount for optics.
The type of competition it would be useful for would be Steel Challenge, Speed Steel, ICORE, and USPSA. ( Might be useful for IDPA, but they are a bit finicky, and not really my interest, anyway.)
Nice. Pick up a used 627? Titanium 9mm cylinder? Going to swap out cylinder/yoke as an assembly? I'm actually a
bit surprised that none of the wheelgun smiths offer a Dan Wesson style barrel system for the N frame.
 
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You can build a gun out of a block of metal, cheese, an 80 % receiver or whatever. If you are building guns for sale and not personal use you need an 07 FFL. If you build a gun for personal use then sell it later on no problem.

And you can build your own NFA guns i.e. SBR's and the like as an individual non licensee from the same blocks of cheese. Pay the tax, file the form 1. Engrave some stuff.

No serial numbers or anything else needed for title 1 guns you build for yourself.
 
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Lesliet

Lesliet

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I'm actually a
bit surprised that none of the wheelgun smiths offer a Dan Wesson style barrel system for the N frame.
The" interchangeable barrel-under-tension housed in a shroud that holds the sights " idea appears to have been patented in about 1967-8, so I could see people not wanting the legal exposure of offering an infringing product for sale. Might be worth licensing it, if favorable terms could be arranged, it seems a brilliant idea to me. The new mill should be here next week, so we'll see how I do with it. :D
 

bolus

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Looks like from what @CountryGent linked, it IS legal to make a gun for personal use, as long as it's detectable by an x-ray machine, and not an NFA gun.
*in some states.

It is illegal to have tools that can be used to finish a 80% in my state. and no, the law does not describe what the tools are. So I had to get rid of my assault drill press and assault set of metal punches and my assault screwdrivers and my assault paper towels. :(
 
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Lesliet

Lesliet

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It is illegal to have tools that can be used to finish a 80% in my state.
Be interesting to see how long that would hold up in the courts... every machine shop and every hardware store that sells electric drills, files, and hacksaws in your state might have to move out of state, taking their jobs and revenue streams with them? They probably meant to ban the specific drilling jigs to allow completion, but didn't understand enough about actual manufacturing to make the law more precise. My contempt for those who don't actually produce anything useful ( no, I don't consider legislation useful) is probably showing.
 

bolus

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Be interesting to see how long that would hold up in the courts... every machine shop and every hardware store that sells electric drills, files, and hacksaws in your state might have to move out of state, taking their jobs and revenue streams with them? They probably meant to ban the specific drilling jigs to allow completion, but didn't understand enough about actual manufacturing to make the law more precise. My contempt for those who don't actually produce anything useful ( no, I don't consider legislation useful) is probably showing.

Yeah they are idiots. Last year they tried to pass a bill to remove every animal which wasnt a native Hawaiian animal. the legislator had to remove it when she was told that there are no native hawaiian animals and all of them have been introduced. it would have included livestock as well.

That's why the saying here is "laws are just suggestions"
 

BillM

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The" interchangeable barrel-under-tension housed in a shroud that holds the sights " idea appears to have been patented in about 1967-8, so I could see people not wanting the legal exposure of offering an infringing product for sale. Might be worth licensing it, if favorable terms could be arranged, it seems a brilliant idea to me. The new mill should be here next week, so we'll see how I do with it. :D
Looks like that patent protection ran out a while back---

" A U.S. utility patent, explained above, is generally granted for 20 years from the date the patent application is filed; however, periodic fees are required to maintain the enforceability of the patent. A design patent is generally granted protection for 14 years measured from the date the design patent is granted. "
 
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Lesliet

Lesliet

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Looks like that patent protection ran out a while back---

" A U.S. utility patent, explained above, is generally granted for 20 years from the date the patent application is filed; however, periodic fees are required to maintain the enforceability of the patent. A design patent is generally granted protection for 14 years measured from the date the design patent is granted. "

And that's why I ask my stupid questions...

The functioning and design of machinery is usually pretty clear to me, something I can understand with a small amount of effort. The functioning of a body of legislation is completely foreign, opaque, and impenetrable to my mind. I even get sweaty trying to fill out any sort of government form.

I don't immediately see how one would go about researching something to see if 1) it's patented, or contains patented ideas, and 2) if the fees have been paid to keep the patent protection going. I do know one can pay for a patent search, which sounds pretty expensive.
 

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