Left handed flintlock muzzleloader

jebediah · Sep 11, 2017

I was hoping that someone on this thread might know who the manufacturer of this muzzleloader may be and what a current value might be. I'm not sure if it's a factory gun or a kit gun. Barrel length is approx. 30", smooth bore. The only markings I can find on it are the word London and a rabbit with a circle around it stamped right in front of the breach and another rabbit with a circle around it stamped on the lock itself. It appears to be in great shape; none of the screws are bugared up and I'm not sure of the caliber because I don't shoot roundball but it looks like .50. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.

Andy54Hawken · Sep 12, 2017

This looks like a left-handed copy of a early London marked trade gun.
Trade Guns are guns made for the fur trade .... they were used by both the fur traders and as a item to trade or barter with to the Indians.
As noted they are smooth bore... .50 caliber may be a possible caliber , but many are made in 20, 28 and 12 gauge ... It might be a good idea to mic the bore.
What you are calling a rabbit is actually a fox within a circle.
This mark was used on many original trade guns till about 1830 or so
This is a common mark on trade guns as well as the "Dragon" or Serpent side plate.

It appears to be a well made gun.
As to value ... a very wild guess here would be $800 + or - depending on if we find out who the maker was , who made the Lock and barrel etc ...
Andy
Edit to add:
I'd uncock the lock if it was my gun.
Pull the hammer all the way back , pull the trigger while "riding" or lightly holding the hammer as it falls down.
( After checking to see if its unloaded of course )

HB of CJ · Sep 12, 2017

Left Hand? Oddball around .50 caliber? Not .58? Not .775? Might be a very well done home kit? 1800 or so replica? I am Left Handed. Value? Dunno that. I had a home built by me Enfield type .58 cal 1858 or so cap fired L.H. rifled musket. War Of Northern Aggression Reenactments way back in the early days.

$Value$? Dunno. Respectfully, I will pass.

jebediah · Sep 12, 2017

Thanks for all of the great information Andy.
I was planning on taking it down south to Springfield to the Gun Works and mic the barrel next time I go.

Dungannon · Sep 12, 2017

I was waiting to see what Andy said. My first impression was that it was a recent kit build. The wood looks too nice, and the edges to sharp for something old and well used. No barrel bands or patch box in the stock. Wouldn't a trade gun been sold in the white, and have acquired a lot of patina over the years?

Andy54Hawken · Sep 13, 2017

There has been debate over the finish of Trade guns.
Some being blued , some in the white and some browned.
I think that it depended on what sold well in a given area...at a given time.
After all the fur trade was about business and its best to sell to the customer what they want... not what a future historian or reenactor says they had or wanted...

If you look at fur trade ledger books you can find all manner of reference to Trade Guns and finishes.

The Gun in the OP looks like a well finished Kit gun of recent manufacture.
I have never seen a original left handed Trade Gun ... Period left handed guns are on the rare or at least very uncommon side of things , for the 18th and 19th century.
Andy

whiskeybill · Sep 13, 2017

A funny thing happened about twelve years ago. A fellow at the gun club in Billings was shooting / showing off his really nice custom .36 cal southpaw flintlock. He asked me if I ( a right hander) would like to pop one off. I said "Heck YES". I charged the barrel and stuffed one down, then charged the pan. Without thinking ( or anyone saying anything ) I put it up to my shoulder in the classic offhand position. My left hand was too close to the flash pan, and I realized that when I touched it off. That got really hot on the ball of my thumb.

HB of CJ · Sep 13, 2017

Now you kinda understand what South Paws endure when shooting off Right Hand Flintlocks. My cap fired L.H. home build was bad enough. Yikes! Blam!

Andy54Hawken · Sep 26, 2017

Hey Jebediah ,
Have you shot this gun yet? or found out more about it?
Andy

Argonaut · Sep 26, 2017

Shooting a wrong handed black powder rifle can be a problem even with a percussion rifle. It took me years to find my left handed Thompson Renegade. That cap going off close to your face with a wrong handed rifle becomes irritating.

jebediah · Oct 2, 2017

AndyinEverson said:
Hey Jebediah ,
Have you shot this gun yet? or found out more about it?
Andy

Hey Andy,
Haven't had a chance to take it to the gunworks to see what I'm dealing with yet, but I'll keep you posted.
Brian

Andy54Hawken · Oct 2, 2017

Heck just bring it up here ...I've got plenty of powder and ball....what's the worse that could happen?...

Andy

jebediah · Feb 5, 2018

Hi Andy,
Took it to the Gunworks in Springfield today and found out the following:
It is a North Star West
54 cal smooth bore
24 ga
The guys that took a look at it, which are experts in muzzleloaders said it look to be unfired.
They appraised it at $850-$1000 and if it was right handed would be worth a couple hundred bucks more.
The North Star guy has sold his company recently and their website is down as he has health problems.
All of his guns were custom made for each individual that ordered them.
Brian

Andy54Hawken · Feb 5, 2018

Brian,
You have a excellent and collectible gun....enjoy it!
A good .54 load is 60-80 grains of 2F a .15 patch and a .530 round ball...
For shot I'd use about 3/4 or 7/8 oz of shot with a charge of 60-80 grains of 2F
Andy