leather holster retention

[Koda]

huge kydex fan here but slowly coming back around to leather for comfort and style. My first try in years I picked a simple open top leather pancake style holster for a compact 1911. Perfect in every way except right out of the box I notice retention is pretty minimal.

I test this in my own informal way by reaching around my back with my weak hand and removing the gun, it comes out freely without any resistance, smooth. By comparison when I do this with a kydex holster I cannot easily remove the gun this way if at all its too awkward. Since that is anything but scientific I had a friend stand behind me and disarm me, again no resistance at all if someone had the lead on disarming I would not be able to react at all... I didn't even feel anything.

My experiences with leather holsters were that unlike most kydex which holds onto the trigger area only, leather retains the gun by gripping all over the gun equally and usually the gun needs to be drawn closely in-line to the axis of the holster ("cant" degree angle) to draw smoothly. A brand new leather holster should arrive very tight in this regard and take some time to break in.

What are your opinions on leather holster retention? especially open top holsters without a thumbreak?

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[L84Cabo]

My experience with leather is two Milt Sparks holsters. Got a VM2 and a 55BN. They are both incredibly tight. The VM2 is sitting in my holster drawer as I typically carry appendix when I IWB. I've put about 500 presentations through the 55BN and it's still way too tight for my liking. I haven't done the "plastic bag around the gun" trick yet but that will be my next step if I decide to continue with the process.

With that said, it's safe to say that I am not much of a leather holster fan. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the craftsmanship and the look/feel of leather but I much prefer kydex for carrying a gun. There's no break-in, they're impervious to the elements, and you can choose your desired retention (assuming you bought a holster that has adjustable retention). I suspect I will ultimately sell both Sparks holsters but I'm not quite ready to part with them just yet.

You are correct, however, that a leather holster should be fairly tight when new. There is much you can do to loosen up a tight holster. There's very little you can do to tighten a holster. Who is the maker? Perhaps a call to them...or possibly a return. A question though...if you put the gun in the holster and turn it upside down, does the gun fall out relatively easily (with light shaking)? Because if it does and that's how it came originally, it sounds like it wasn't sized correctly.

 

[fxdc]

Been years ago in Nevada, long story short.

On the ground in a struggle had a gun come out of a open top..... never used them again except for competition.

Auto locking and thumb breaks are all I use since then..... had Ted Blocker make me one for my Kimber Micro 9 and modify a bianchi model 82 for it also.
The model 82 remains my favorite and have one for each size of 1911 I own.

 

[11Charlie]

All I have ever used is Krydex. With that said I recently ordered me a leather holster for my 51 Colt 1911 because I felt like it needed something nice when I do carry it. My hope is that it will be a nice fit and I can use it when I want an open carry piece, like hunting or hiking.

Hope I didn't make a $150 dollar mistake
Will let you know when it arrives.

 

[Tully Mars]

I'm a leather guy and always have been. I still have an old 80's vintage Bianchi that I use for my HP. Most all of my stuff comes from Alessi. I've never had a bad one in 30 years. I hear Blocker's stuff is excellent but have never tried one yet.
Alessigunholsters.com
Alessi Holsters

I currently have the hots for this one:
Mernickle "Wild Bunch" 1911 Holster (19947): Gear: Holsters, Belts & Pouches at Dillon Precision
Mernickle "Wild Bunch" 1911 Magazine Pouch (19946): Gear: Holsters, Belts & Pouches at Dillon Precision

 

[titsonritz]

What are your opinions on leather holster retention? especially open top holsters without a thumbreak?

A properly made leather holster should "snap-in" just like Kydex when they are new.

 

[hatchj]

The leather holsters ive had made have had just as good of rentention as the kydex ive had once you do the "break in" procedure in them.

 

[WAYNO]

Things are changing. More folks, if not most folks, prefer open top holsters, securing the gun only by friction. In the past, mechanical retention was much more important. My time in the Army drove that point home. Everything was positively secured in some manner, including, especially, handguns. A thong, a tether, a strap, a thumb break...I wont leave home without one of these choices.

I've tried open-top Kydex, and more than once, getting in or out of a vehicle, the handgun has either pushed out of the holster, or the holster has pushed off my belt. So, belt loops are important too. Spring loaded belt clips on a holster can fail.

I wont change anybodies mind, and I don't intend to, but this is what works for me.

 

[Koda]

From the sound of the replies I made the right call sending the holster back to the manufacturer. Hopefully they will treat me right.

Also the good news is I get the impression that leather holsters still have a place for use compared to kydex. Ultimately I find kydex the best choice but Im growing tired of their "tacticool" look and they are not as comfortable. I have a custom made OWB kydex holster thats awesom in every way but after all day wear hiking its hard inside rubs into my hip. I have an old Galco leather pancake holster thats too worn out now but was the most comfortable holster ever so Im looking for a replacement for it but a bit higher quality.

 

[mrblond]

I have a Sparks Axiom OWB holster for a 1911 and its very tight, to tight. If you ever saw those westerns where the bad guy draws but cant get the gun out of the holster but keeps yanking and yanking till he pulls the gunbelt up to his chest? its like that.

 

[titsonritz]

Get a Kramer horsehide and don't look back. There are a lot of good leather holster makers, I always recommend Kramer because they are not only quality but their lead times are not completely ridiculous like much of their competition.

 

[Koda]

Yeah, Im learning the lead times are even more rediculous than a custom kydex.
Im interested in one from Brigade Gun Leather but his lead time is 8 months...
Brigade Holsters- M-1 Hoplon Professional Holster

 

[titsonritz]

Way more ridiculous. If you really want to hang around for some dead animal skin give Garrity a call.

Honestly, Kramer has very reasonable lead times.

 

[thorborg]

leather works for me, I have a nice Milt Sparks for my 1911 which is OK. Frankly I like my home made ones better so usually go for them. Usually the better leathers offer a snug screw near the trigger guard however if not:
preferable <70 & <80 degrees
Soak an old T shirt in warm water and wring it out just until it wont readily drip then loosely pack it in your holster filling all the nooks ensuring all surfaces and crannies are caressed for 20 minutes or so until apparently wet at least half way through, but definitely remove it if you see any wetting through to the outside. set it on top of the refrigerator or some where you frequent often and check every 6 to 12 hours , when the inside leather seems much dryer yet still some what supple, examine it carefully for your guns imprint.
If the rendition is still rather crisp then allow to finish drying. It should be more snug to your gun and ready to add some polish to spiffy it up. if it is has lost some of its shape, wrap your gun in plastic stretch wrap and carefully fit it back in the holster. rub your thumb in the trigger guard area and run the edge if a polished fork handle or the like along the slide indents being careful to stay away from the grove for the front sight. The finish drying in this form may take several days longer as the plastic inhibits the process, regardless, you should still end up with a tighter fit.

As an aside; some leather holsters are "sealed" using anything from oils to lacquers which will severely marginalize your effort, however all leather will usually comply to some extent.
Not a quick draw sort, my preference to maintain retention is to not oil nor wax the inside of my leather holsters. Be it known though, that this makes them noisier, and are little more abrasive to finish. Nevertheless, never use neatsfoot oil on any leather you don't want to soften. It is unlikely you will ever restore any product needing stiffness once softened with neatsfoot oi. good for clothing, gloves and back packs, but not for shoes* , holsters and saddles.
*unless working out a blister zone, use locally and in small affected area only then add mole skin to the foot until pressure is eliminated.

 

[nammac]

For leather, after playing with many different holsters, I can say that I've settled on a Milt Sparks Nexus for my Commander. It's right, it's retains even in a shake test... It's horsehide backing with steer molding around the pistols profile... Not cheap, but worth every penny...

 

[thorborg]

Milt makes a tight rig for sure. Though some are not happy with their lead time, the outcome may be viewed as a lesson in the benefits of patients. My main reason for the use of 'self made" holsters is less that I am able, and more that I can custom tailor them to my particular slabs of bacon since I am anything but "average".
When you buy the likes of Milt, I see it as attention to detail, rigorous quality assurance, and personal attention fitting to your specific machine. When I bought mine, I was asked for not only manufacture of 1911 but style of sights and any other alteration that may apply.
I believe those who carry the nearly three pound of loaded 1911 will realize the benefit of a Milt holster (or equal) easier than the same holster with a gun half the weight. A loose load will wear out the packer in a hurry!

 

[billdeserthills]

I have a Sparks Axiom OWB holster for a 1911 and its very tight, to tight. If you ever saw those westerns where the bad guy draws but cant get the gun out of the holster but keeps yanking and yanking till he pulls the gunbelt up to his chest? its like that.

Brownells sells a teflon coating used to 'slick up' leather holsters
called KG 9--I used to coat all the new Don Hume holsters I sold with it
as they were pretty tight, right out of the package. It does make drawing
from a tight leather holster much easier

 

[titsonritz]

From Kramer's FAQ:

Other holsters I have used were soft, why do you hard mould your holsters?

Most (not all) soft holsters are generically fit to a frame size rather than a specific gun. Professionals prefer hard moulded rigs as they retain the weapon properly without the use of a thumb break snap or other extra retaining device. You should be able to take a moulded rig and turn it upside down an UNLOADED gun in it, give it a gentle shake (over a bed or pillow or other soft protective surface) and the gun should stay in the holster. The lack of a thumb break provides a quicker draw time and a more comfortable compact holster with fewer protrusions to bite into your body.



What if I get my holster wet?

U.S. NAVY SEALS use our horsehide holsters for salt water operations. Although we do not encourage you to soak your holster for extended periods the way they do, should your holster become wet, remove the gun and allow the holster to air dry slowly either in direct sunlight or in a gently heated area such as on top of a WARM (not hot?) hot water or home heating furnace. It is very important that the heat if used, be gentle and warm, NOT hot!



How do I tighten my holster if the fit is too loose?

Do not attempt to tighten your holster by yourself. Give us a call and we will make arrangements to do this for you.



How do I loosen my holster if it is too tight?

The outer dimensions of specific models of guns can vary considerably between individual guns. For instance a Colt Government Model can have as much as 20 thousandths of an inch difference in outer dimensions, depending upon age, finish, manufacturer, etc,etc. Consequently we prefer to have our holsters start out on the snug fitting side. Should it be necessary to loosen your holster, take the plastic bag that the holster cam in and wrap it around the gun. Insert the UNLOADED gun into the holster and let it set for several hours. This will stretch the leather approximately two or three thousandths of an inch. If necessary, wrap the gun with two bags. You can use up to three bags to stretch the holster. If this is still not successful, give us a call and we will be happy to adjust the fit for you.


Can my holster be remoulded if necessary?

Yes. Give us a call. We can remould and recondition your old, used holster and have it looking and fitting like new! We only offer this service for KRAMER holsters. Be advised, that mahogany or tan holsters will be considerably darker after remoulding. We do charge for this service. Call our order desk for current prices.

 

[EPS]

Been years ago in Nevada, long story short.

On the ground in a struggle had a gun come out of a open top..... never used them again except for competition.

Auto locking and thumb breaks are all I use since then..... had Ted Blocker make me one for my Kimber View attachment 387392 Micro 9 and modify a bianchi model 85 for it also.
The model 85 remains my favorite and have one for each size of 1911 I own.View attachment 387391

Nice guns I got one question mmmmm from looking at your profile picture how do you keep them concealed LOL

 

[EPS]

WHAT IT'S S HONEST QUESTION