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Lead base paint and remodeling

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by jib, Aug 20, 2011.

  1. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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  2. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Not if you do all your own work.....

    My house was built in 1923 well some of it anyway,
     
  3. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Its bull...most of it is pure bull.
     
  4. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Many, Many other states are not "Taken Over" and while lead paint and asbestos is and can be dangerous you don't have to be a rocket scientist to remove and depose of it without killing all the little kids. Geezzzz....
     
    Redcap and (deleted member) like this.
  5. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how many thousands...hundreds of thousands...millions...hundreds of millions ever made it before local Lead base paint certified contractors were around.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2011
  6. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    This sums it up pretty well...

    Lead-based-paint panic scares parents without sufficient cause | The Post and Courier, Charleston SC - News, Sports, Entertainment

    Lead-based-paint panic scares parents without sufficient cause


    Lead-based-paint panic scares parents without sufficient cause
    By John Brock
    Special to The Journal
    Thursday, September 6, 2007



    "The media and environmentalists have yet another reason to throw parents into a panic over millions of imported Chinese-made toys decorated with paint containing lead. Parents all over America have been led to the mistaken belief that if their kids touch just one of these toys, their health will deteriorate, little fingers will start falling off, and an automatic 10 to 15 points will be deducted from their IQs.

    Americans are rightly concerned about faulty products being shipped to this country from foreign ports. Danger from imported goods has been found in lead-painted products, toothpaste and pet foods, and heaven only knows what menace is yet to be uncovered. It should be stopped immediately, a better inspection system put into place, and those responsible for the misdeed severely punished. But let's get real. We don't have to unnecessarily scare the dickens out of parents and kids all over the land.

    Lead poisoning is real and can be dangerous. But in small amounts, it is an accumulative process and repeated exposure is necessary for substantial damage to the body. Only the last generation or two has been protected from lead-based paint. Before lead-based products were outlawed, Americans survived to a ripe old age for hundreds of years while surrounded by lead in many forms.

    In generations past, just about everything we touched was painted with lead-based paint, including toys and even our cribs. Our homes were plumbed with lead pipes (some still are), home-canning jars were topped with caps containing lead, commercially canned foods were sealed and household utensils soldered with lead-based material. The IQs of today's young folks, who have been "protected" from lead, display little evidence that we older folks are dumber than they are. Just listen to their music if you need proof. "

    Amen! Nicely put!
     
  7. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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    This Federal law is in effect, any contractor working on a pre 1979 home and is not certified could be fined over $5000 per violation, by that I mean you could have numerous violations on the same project.
     
  8. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    All you have to do is look to California for the results of regulating lead paint, red dyes, asbestos, herbacides, pestacides and just about every other useful product. Now are you that worried about useless results of lab rats dying after eating and drinking these things or more worried about the people resulting from these regulations?
     
  9. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    We need someone like gunner3456 to take this Federal law to court..since he actually wins while there!

    I'd loose and they'd put me in a lead based cell. :D
     
  10. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Should I buy a house that has lead-based paint?
    Don't panic: Chanie Kirschner has the lowdown on lead.

    Should I buy a house that has lead-based paint? | MNN - Mother Nature Network

    "One of the key studies that led (pun intended) to the ban of lead in paint and in gasoline is as dramatic as a Hollywood movie. In the early 1970s, Philip Landrigan, an epidemiologist and pediatrician, tested the lead levels in the blood of children who went to school within one mile of ASARCO, a smelting plant in El Paso, Texas. What he found was, at the time, both devastating and astonishing. He concluded that even small amounts of lead in the blood contributed to lower IQ and impaired motor coordination.

    In a later study, he even concluded that lead toxicity directly correlates to lowered lifetime earning potential — a sobering thought, to say the least. (Another interesting lead-related study conducted in 2007 indicates a possible correlation between lead toxicity and crime-related behavior.) Though lead is harmful to adults as well, it is more dangerous to children whose bodies and immune systems are still developing and therefore are more susceptible to outside factors.

    It was for this reason that lead-based paint was banned, and today is not used in new home construction. However, if you’re buying a home that was built before the ban went into effect, chances are there is still lead-based paint in the house, hence your dilemma above. Sellers are required to tell you about the lead in the house, so that you can make your own informed decision about whether to purchase and what kinds of renovations will be necessary."

    Hmmm...
     
  11. imandrew18

    imandrew18 Salem, Oregon Active Member

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    Lead is the most dangerous in it's dust form, be very careful
    About sanding anything that has lead in it, be sure to wear a charcoal
    Respirator and use a lead filter for your shop vac. There are also some great products for striping your paint off with out creating dust. See link Dumond Chemicals, Inc. Home Page it is a product that peels up to 30 layers of paint in one easy application . Pm me for more info
     
  12. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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    As a contractor I Will Not work on a pre 79 home that has tested positive for LBP. The way the laws are written it's way to risky, even with the LBP certification I would be at risk to law suits.
     
  13. repins05

    repins05 OR Member

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    Buying a home before 1979 could be costly.... you are correct. Lets say your kid just hit a baseball through your window and you need to have it replaced. Simple process? As a contractor.....I must be a certified renovator. This is probably taught by a retired government employee or the company that supplies the EPA certified test kit. If I am not certified I face fines of up to $32,500 for each violation. Once I walk on the job I must keep a copy of my training certificate on site. I must be physically present (if I have employees) while posting signs, containing work areas, and cleaning work areas (will get to that). I will also have to be available by phone when offsite. So before I remove the window.......I must contain the area including the interior and exterior areas where the window is located with temporary barriers to isolate the work area so that no dust or debris escape when the renovation is being performed. The interior must have protective barriers 6 feet in all directions including the floor. Oh yeah, if there is a door I must provide two layers of protective sheeting on it. On the exterior I must provide a containment area of a minimum of 10 feet from the work area. I have to establish a 20 foot perimeter around the work area and must limit all access and place signs warning of the "danger" Basically, picture a plastic bubble inside and out with a worker in a white chemical suit and gas mask....kind of what you would see in a nuclear fall out site. Remove the window and replace. Now I must collect all paint chips and debris and seal in heavy duty plastic bags. I now HEPA vacuum and wet wipe walls from high to low then hepa vacuum remaining surfaces and wipe with a damp cloth. I must change out the damp cloth frequently. Then I mist, fold, tape and seal the protective sheeting and seal in a heavy duty plastic bag. I then clean 2 feet beyond the contained area. Dont forget this is interior and exterior. Once I am done, I must hepa vacuum and wipe down the heavy duty bags and dispose of them in accordance with Federal regulations. Hopefully you live close by.......because gas is real cheap right now and I have lots of time to drive 45 minutes to throw the 1 ounce of paint chips I just accumulated. It must be transported with a secure storage method. Lord forbid the bag flies out of my truck and spills. Here comes HAZMAT....... Dont forget during the entire process I have mandatory record keeping. Copies of certified firm and certified renovator certifications must be kept on site and recorded (mentioned above). Lead paint results must be recorded. Only EPA recognized test kits can be used by the way. Someone is making bank on these kits. Proof of owner occupant pre-renovation education must be recorded. Post renovation reporting includes (again) copies of the certified renovator certifications. Certification from a certified renovator of non certified worker training (if I have employees) and a list of topics covered. Certification of posting warning signs. Description of chemical spot testing. Certification of work area containment, onsite waste containment and transport, proper post renovation work area cleaning, and successful cleaning verification. Last but not least a clearance report. Forgot to mention if I have employees they must now be covered under workman's comp and liability for Hazardous Materials Work. No big deal....my insurance company doesn't charge much for anything that includes the word Hazardous. The 30-45 minute window replacement just turned into a 4-5 hour job. Not to mention, just the materials alone for the containment probably cost more then the window itself. Now throw in the labor, additional insurance costs, fuel, additional overhead, etc. Did I mention the economy sucks right now? By the way, who cares about the liability of getting sued by the owner or the neighbor....it really isn't as easy as it sounds. The only plus in this for me is that I can get dressed up in my pretty white chemical suit and my gas mask grab my dewalt drill and my Colt M-16 and no one will think the different as I walk around the neighborhood fixing windows.......


     
    jib, Father of four, Abiqua and 3 others like this.
  14. repins05

    repins05 OR Member

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    Just keep buying your kids toys made in China........its legal and they only test them once in a while.
     
  15. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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    repins05,

    you pretty much summed it up.

    thanks.

    The EPA estimated the renovation costs of this new law would be about $60. That would not even cover the cost of the plastic, what world do these people live in :confused:
     
  16. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    And bubblegum like this is why you do the work on your own house...
     
  17. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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    Ok so what if I where a LBP remodeler what would this do to my liability insurance rates ?