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Laser or flashlite for home defense

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by Mark W., Jun 2, 2012.

  1. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    OK I need your help deciding something. I am currently building a Rem 870 based Home defense shotgun. It will have day glo type fiber optic open sights. I want to add either a laser or a flashlight to it. I would add both but I don't want the end of the barrel all bulked up. So what ever I add will be either mounted in the extended mag or directly in front of it.


    SO what I need help with is:

    If you were in someones house to do evil in the middle of the night and you saw a Red Laser or a Flashlight coming down the stair well towards you which would be more likely to get you to run screaming like a little girl into the night from which you came?

    My house is lit at night (7watt CF in the Living room, downstairs bath) so unless the bad guy went around and turned off the lights I have no problem seeing in my house at night. (nor would I if the lights were off due to window placement and street lights).
     
  2. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Power goes off, power gets cut. Always have a flashlight on a home defense gun. You want to be able to say 100% that you identified your target in a bright white light and identified it as a threat before you engaged. Otherwise an overzealous DA can come in and say "Sure, your house had some ambient light. But are you certain that the person posed a real threat?" Breaking into someone's home should be enough a threat, but it may not be. Put a surefire forend on the shotgun and you'll be in great shape.
     
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  3. PinkhamR

    PinkhamR Altus, Oklahoma MSgt, USAF (Retired)-FFL Lifetime Supporter

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    I use a flashlight but have it held away from my body instead of attaching it to my Shotty ...
     
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  4. lowly monk

    lowly monk Beaverton, Oregon. Just a guy. Bronze Supporter

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    +1Old school.
     
  5. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Does that not become problematic with a pump shotgun that requires two hands to fire and cycle? now if I was walking down the stairs with the Bulldog pug I could see that method.
     
  6. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Flashlight is a must. You HAVE to ID your target.

    There are some units that have flashlight and laser together.

    IF you use a flashlight properly it will not matter if it is on the gun or in your hand. You might also check out lights with strobe function and how to apply it properly too. The Streamlight TRL-1s can be had for ~$100 and is an amazing light.
     
  7. Glackowitz

    Glackowitz Oregon New Member

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    I have a 250lumen CREE led flashlight mounted to my shotgun, It also has a pressure switch at my fingertips...no racking involved in deploying the rounds...Semi auto

    End.jpg light.jpg

    End.jpg

    light.jpg
     
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  8. idRATHERbeOUTDOORS

    idRATHERbeOUTDOORS Yamhill County Active Member

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    Yes to the flashlight, identification is very important. plus, if an intruder is dumb enough not to run when they see a light, and hear the "rack of death" they are probably gonna need a few pellets in them to change their mind ;)
     
  9. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Well they should never see a light till it is too late. They should never hear you rack anything because that means you are down 1 round and you just gave away your position................ If they know you are coming and from where you have failed.
     
  10. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I would love to see a video of the proper way to use a flashlight held in the hand with a pump shotgun. Having shot a number of critters with a flashlight it has always been very problematic and near impossible to cycle the weapon with only one hand.
     
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  11. idRATHERbeOUTDOORS

    idRATHERbeOUTDOORS Yamhill County Active Member

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    Simple don't turn on the light until you need it to identify what you are going to shoot at. I never said you had to leave it on at all times.
    Your only down one round if you store your gun with one in the chamber.
    And I'm not sure an intruder would stop and think, "hmm, they just racked a shotgun that means they only have the amount of rounds allowed by the size of the tube, I guess if I can safely dodge these say 5-6 shots, I then have the upperhand!"

    The goal is to get the intruder out of your house and off your property, not to kill them before they know what happened.
     
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  12. Capn Jack

    Capn Jack Wet-Stern Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I think we're missing the point here...

    We're not talking a scene from your favorite "Shoot 'em up".

    You see and positively identify someone inside of your house, with a weapon.
    You have a "loaded" (if one isn't in the chamber, it's not loaded) shotgun.

    You pull the trigger. End of threat. Anything you say, or do before you pull
    that trigger gives the bad guy the advantage and he will probably kill you......

    He didn't come there to chat.

    Jack...:cool:
     
  13. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Having been in the exact situation (where target ID is required) 3 times already and three times I didn't shoot I have the ID your target thing figured out. For the last 44+ years it has been driven into my being that in order to pull the trigger you have to know the sex, how many points, and the backstop of any target.

    As a high school kid (16-17) was home watching my lil sis while our parents were out. When at about 10pm someone came up to our front door (out in the country) And started YELLING AND POUNDING on the door so hard I thought they would break it. I grabbed my lil sis threw her into her bedroom locked the door ran into dads room grabbed the M1 carbine from under his bed reached in the top dresser drawer and grabbed a loaded clip. Locked and loaded the carbine. Ran to the kitchen window beside the front door (I knew it was a good defensable position having a full brick face on the wall up to chest height. I swung the muzzle of the carbine through the window screen about 5 feet from the guy pounding on the front door.

    I then went right into the hunting mode dad beat into me and I ID'ed my target before pulling the trigger. Even in the near dark I was able to make out that the screaming Idiot at the front door was a family friend and classmate who thought it would be funny to light me up when he brought my younger brothers home from moving irrigation pipe unexpectantly.

    Needless to say he turned white as a ghost when I yelled his name and he turned and was looking right down the barrel of that carbine.

    By the way this is the same Carbine I gave my freshman speech on. "How to Field Strip and Clean an M1 carbine". I took the carbine to school on the bus kept in my locker until needed for the english class and then took it home on the bus. A single phone call to the school VP was all it took for dad to get permission for me to do it. I received an A for the Speech. Gee times have changed.

    Next up

    We were living in a single wide trailer out in the country when all of a sudden my English Cocker Spaniel wakes up and starts her screaming alarm type bark Shes running down the hallway. I roll out of bed grab my Star Model B 9mm rack a round into the chamber and stand with myself behind the edge of the doorway with only my right side visable down the hall just enough to sight the pistol towards the Head coming through the wall next to the trailers front door.

    As I watched this head coming through the door I took note of how my hunting dogs disposition completely changed as she reached the person coming through the wall and I knew the person wasn't a threat. She stopped barking and acted like she was waiting to be petted.

    My dumb *** brother had gotten himself stupid drunk and instead of knocking on the door and waking us up (since he had lost his key somewhere) he thought it would be better to just break the decorative glass next to the door and crawl through the opening. Again my hunting experiance and training (watching the dog to see when the bird was going to flush) paid off for my stupid brother.


    Third time was in our present house I was staying up late watching TV about 2am I hear what sounds like someone messing with the neighbors house (about 15 ft from my chair in the living room warm night had the front door open) I run into my room grab a Maglite and my 870 Wingmaster I shove a couple bird rounds into the magazine and I walk out the front to see whos messing with the neighbors house since they are in Mexico on vacation. We were as always asked to keep an eye on the place as they do for us when we are away. I see someone trying to jimmy open the bedroom window the screen is already off and laying bent up on the ground.

    I rack a round into the chamber keeping the muzzle pointed up in a safe direction and flick on the Maglite at which point in time I hear screamed at the top of his lungs "Its ME MARK DON'T SHOOT IT'S BRIAN"

    The neighbors 22-23 year old son had been drinking in town and decided it made more sense to sleep it off at mommy and daddys of course he didn't have his house key.

    being the person wasn't coming into my house and wasn't a direct treat to ME I never even pointed the shotgun in his direction. Since in the state of Oregon the only lawful reason to do that would be for self defense.

    I have no problem with when and how to shoot. I am looking for advise on the best way to NOT have to shoot. And wondering if someone is more likely to run from a Laser on their chest or a flashlite.
     
  14. idRATHERbeOUTDOORS

    idRATHERbeOUTDOORS Yamhill County Active Member

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    Of course you would shoot if they had a weapon :confused:
    It's still probably not a good idea shoot the person until after you can assess the situation though. Or you'll probably end up like zimmerman
     
  15. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    Lasers are toys, but I have nothing against toys. Green ones at least can be seen in light. One of my toys has TWO green lasers and TWO lights (lol) that converge together at POA at 50 yards; great for knowing distance; bright even in sunlight. Toys are fun.

    Lights are nice on about everything. In a split second you don't want to have to search for a flashlight. Can't afford Surefires and other/expensive high end on everything. Many are clunky, have weak power/lumens anyway. If I turn a light on someone I want them blinded.

    Fenix FD32 w/ mount, under $70; 315 Lumen. Fenix TK12 w/ Vltor angle/offset mount; $160; 405/450 lumen. Don't like lights/devices that stick out on the sides because they are cumbersome and take up unnecessary safe space. Either tucked up near the scope line or on the lower rail in front of the stubby grip or AFG. The issue with lights/lasers on pistols is getting a holster that matches; long guns are easier to put together.

    If you can reach a contact rear switch on a light with your thumb I do not prefer contact/grip switches, especially on vertical grips. Too easy to set the light on when you don't want it to come on.

    For an offhand carry light, get one of the LED 2000 lumen lights for <$50. Crazy amount of light and will blind anyone, even at 50 yards in the dark; http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Lumens...6960687?pt=US_Flashlights&hash=item27bd23bdaf

    Or if you have $2400 to spend and you want to blind someone 300 yards away - http://www.foursevens.com/product_info.php?products_id=3060
     
  16. Capn Jack

    Capn Jack Wet-Stern Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Mark,

    The first thing I reach for is my glasses.:laugh:

    2nd Is my 250 lumin L.E.D. Flashlight with Strobe.

    3rd is my Revolver...Always loaded, no safties, just pull the trigger.:thumbup:

    Jack...:cool:
     
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  17. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Yeah strobes are great until you realize that it not only disorients any intruders but you as well...

    Pressure switch cords with tube attached flashlights are great for semi-auto guns where the support hand has no other function. Otherwise, the surefire foreends work well. Yes, they can be expensive. But why are you compromising on a tool you will rely on to defend yourself in a lethal force encounter? Save the money and do it right the first time. Just my two cents. Worth what you paid for it...
     
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  18. Toxic6

    Toxic6 Higher then a PDX hipster (~10,000 ft higher) Active Member

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    Flashlight, unless you have night-vision or the eyes of a cat......and if you are trying to get the point across prior to contact, a bright flashlight and the sound of the shotgun slide racking should intimidate most lightweight threats :p
     
  19. DeletedUser1

    DeletedUser1 Member

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    what about using both. the flashlight to indentify and a laser to find the target.
     
  20. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Can't vote for both!!
    On one of my Win 1300's I have a front mounted flashlight with a laser in the center, best of both worlds and it also has a switch mounted where my thumb contacts it when my finger is on the trigger.