L E take on open carry

[BillB1960]

I want to address this one seperately: Do you remember in Seattle, a year or so ago, this hardened criminal walked into a coffee shop and just shot four LEO's?

Now, do you think this same guy would have bothered me, if I was sitting in that same coffee shop, with my openly carried weapon, but I was at a completely different table?

I don't. I think that guy shot those officers specifically because they were officers. He didn't even stop to collect the weapons, he just shot them and left. It was his retaliation for the law putting him in jail, it had nothing to do with guns.

Now, if I had been there and pulled my weapon, I might have been shot, or I might have gotten off a shot, or I might have delayed him enough that one of teh officers could get off a shot at him....never know, wasn't there, but if you were there concealed and pulled your weapon, don't you think the various senario's would be the same....ya think?

In my 42+ years of OC (mostly unlicensed) I know for sure of one case my holster pistol stopped something bad for me, and my pistol never left it's holster...and I have never had any other confrontations. Your "hardened criminal" senario may have happened somewhere, but I've never heard of one that was verifiable,,,,and i do know I have read verifiable stories of CC persons being robbed, of their carry too.

Oh, may I add: When the Newton CT shoot first came out, I was in a small retail store, at the checkout. I said..."and that is exactly why I carry"...The owner of the stores answer to that statement? EXACTLY!

I'm having a real hard time following your logic. So somehow OC in a coffee shop with a bunch of cops makes you what...a distraction? Bad guy comes in looking to target the cops, sees you with a gun and changes his mind? Makes no sense. This guy had serious bad intentions; he was willing to take on 4 armed LEOs. What on earth makes you think he wouldn't have taken you on as well? You think bad guys are incapable of threat assessment?

You want a more likely scenario? How about a smart CC who while the bad guy is focused on shooting at the cops pulls his weapon under the table, comes up and puts a couple of rounds into the bad guy before he even knows that someone else in the coffee shop had a weapon?

You keep intimating that CC is for criminals, I'd counter that by saying that OC is for "cowboys" and I don't mean the guys that ride horses and rope steers.

 

[hermannr]

I'm having a real hard time following your logic. So somehow OC in a coffee shop with a bunch of cops makes you what...a distraction? Bad guy comes in looking to target the cops, sees you with a gun and changes his mind? Makes no sense. This guy had serious bad intentions; he was willing to take on 4 armed LEOs. What on earth makes you think he wouldn't have taken you on as well? You think bad guys are incapable of threat assessment?

You want a more likely scenario? How about a smart CC who while the bad guy is focused on shooting at the cops pulls his weapon under the table, comes up and puts a couple of rounds into the bad guy before he even knows that someone else in the coffee shop had a weapon?

You keep intimating that CC is for criminals, I'd counter that by saying that OC is for "cowboys" and I don't mean the guys that ride horses and rope steers.

You obviously did not understand what I wrote,,,oh well. I do not believe in forcing my opinions on anyone. BTW: I have OC'd in Protland, several times in the 40 some years...last time about 5 years ago...never even caught the attention of anyone, LEO or otherwise.

My carry if I can get it to display,

 

[BillB1960]

You obviously did not understand what I wrote,,,oh well. I do not believe in forcing my opinions on anyone. BTW: I have OC'd in Protland, several times in the 40 some years...last time about 5 years ago...never even caught the attention of anyone, LEO or otherwise.

My carry if I can get it to display,

Doesn't say much about the Situational Awareness of the average city dweller does it?

 

[davemata]

your average urb is about as situationally aware as a dead goat.

 

[hermannr]

I'm having a real hard time following your logic. So somehow OC in a coffee shop with a bunch of cops makes you what...a distraction? Bad guy comes in looking to target the cops, sees you with a gun and changes his mind? Makes no sense. This guy had serious bad intentions; he was willing to take on 4 armed LEOs. What on earth makes you think he wouldn't have taken you on as well? You think bad guys are incapable of threat assessment?

You want a more likely scenario? How about a smart CC who while the bad guy is focused on shooting at the cops pulls his weapon under the table, comes up and puts a couple of rounds into the bad guy before he even knows that someone else in the coffee shop had a weapon?

You keep intimating that CC is for criminals, I'd counter that by saying that OC is for "cowboys" and I don't mean the guys that ride horses and rope steers.

I do ride horses and Rope steers, but that has nothing to do with my carry, well maybe a little, on hoseback I carry a different gun, and holster...a holster that provides complete coverage and protection to the weapon.

But today we went to town (a 40 mile round trip), stopped at the drug store to pick up prescriptions for my wife, took the wife to lunch, stopped at the grocery store, and then drove back up into the Highland where are trees and everything else is covered with about a foot of beautiful white snow. No horses fainted, no old women stampeded.

The animals need extra care as it has be cold the last couple days...it's 16°F right now, got down to 5°F last night...looks like it will be colder tonight.

Oh, BTW: When I was in Vietnam back in the 60's..."Cowboys" were the local gangsters. They did not open carry, like all criminals everyhwere, they hid their weapons until they "needed" them to shake someone down.

 

[BillB1960]

your average urb is about as situationally aware as a dead goat.

Sheep vs sheep dogs

 

[hermannr]

Doesn't say much about the Situational Awareness of the average city dweller does it?

Portland is no different than anywhere else. Most people are even less aware now then before the cell phone appeared. If they are not into themselves, they are on the phone now. Up here in the Highlands, the people a bit more aware (no cell phone reception, or if you have reception, it might be a tower in BC and the fees charged when bounced off a foreign tower are crazy) We do not have a cell phone...we do have a land line.

They have done some amazing studies on how many people have absolutely no idea what is going on around them.

 

[BillB1960]

I do ride horses and Rope steers, but that has nothing to do with my carry, well maybe a little, on hoseback I carry a different gun, and holster...a holster that provides complete coverage and protection to the weapon.

But today we went to town (a 40 mile round trip), stopped at the drug store to pick up prescriptions for my wife, took the wife to lunch, stopped at the grocery store, and then drove back up into the Highland where are trees and everything else is covered with about a foot of beautiful white snow. No horses fainted, no old women stampeded.

The animals need extra care as it has be cold the last couple days...it's 16°F right now, got down to 5°F last night...looks like it will be colder tonight.

Oh, BTW: When I was in Vietnam back in the 60's..."Cowboys" were the local gangsters. They did not open carry, like all criminals everyhwere, they hid their weapons until they "needed" them to shake someone down.

nice to know you have the appropriate gun for the right outfit. I tend to think of my firearm as a weapon not an accessory.

 

[mjbskwim]

I do ride horses and Rope steers, but that has nothing to do with my carry, well maybe a little, on hoseback I carry a different gun, and holster...a holster that provides complete coverage and protection to the weapon.

But today we went to town (a 40 mile round trip), stopped at the drug store to pick up prescriptions for my wife, took the wife to lunch, stopped at the grocery store, and then drove back up into the Highland where are trees and everything else is covered with about a foot of beautiful white snow. No horses fainted, no old women stampeded.

The animals need extra care as it has be cold the last couple days...it's 16°F right now, got down to 5°F last night...looks like it will be colder tonight.

Oh, BTW: When I was in Vietnam back in the 60's..."Cowboys" were the local gangsters. They did not open carry, like all criminals everyhwere, they hid their weapons until they "needed" them to shake someone down.

You keep saying this and you live were probably everyone is armed anyway.

Maybe I'm wrong,and I have stated this argument before,but if decided to rob a store,or a coffee shop,whatever, and when I walked in some OC cowboy was there with his gun showing.....

Now lets say I haven't had my fix for a week

The OC cowboy is first to get shot. Then to ANYONE who even looks like a cop. Or that looks at me wrong.
You aren't a threat,you are a pest in the way.Remember I have no conscience to worry about.
And if I was OCing while a robbery started,I would try to hide the gun so they ignored me,maybe gaining some advantage BEFORE the decided to engage me.

I haven't seen pictures of you,but gogodawgs always said the same thing,but he looked like a cop.
Who was going to say anything to a cop OCing?

But I do defend your right to OC,even in the Washington outback.
Say Merry Christmas to Grizz for me too. (his ex's cousin)

 

[hermannr]

You keep saying this and you live were probably everyone is armed anyway.

Maybe I'm wrong,and I have stated this argument before,but if decided to rob a store,or a coffee shop,whatever, and when I walked in some OC cowboy was there with his gun showing.....

Now lets say I haven't had my fix for a week

The OC cowboy is first to get shot. Then to ANYONE who even looks like a cop. Or that looks at me wrong.
You aren't a threat,you are a pest in the way.Remember I have no conscience to worry about.
And if I was OCing while a robbery started,I would try to hide the gun so they ignored me,maybe gaining some advantage BEFORE the decided to engage me.

I haven't seen pictures of you,but gogodawgs always said the same thing,but he looked like a cop.
Who was going to say anything to a cop OCing?

But I do defend your right to OC,even in the Washington outback.
Say Merry Christmas to Grizz for me too. (his ex's cousin)

The reality of your robbery senario would probably go like, BG comes into the store, sees the cop or OC'er, turns around and leaves...whether perminently, or only until the gun goes away. as happened in Kennesaw, GA Wafflehouse back in 2010.

Most criminals are cowards, they do not want any possible chance they will not be able to control the situation and accomplish the mission. They are also smart enough to know, robbery...in and back out in no time flat...IF they get caught, They also know that if they shoot someone, they most likely will get caught because LE does not let stuff like that slide....and conviction for murder or assault with a deadly weapon is worth a lot more time in jail.

If a person is crazy enough to shoot a cop, he is crazy enough to shoot anyone...that is no argument.

Do I look like a cop? I don't think so, I think I look more like an (old) rancher. Done with being an EE and businessman...retired 8 years ago back to the land.

 

[97321]

Well this has been an interesting read. Always curious to watch a threadjack in action..

I believe the OP's question was regarding specific interactions with LEO whether CC or OC, not the reletive merits or demerits of CC vs. OC. Interesting read, though.

As for myself, I CC and keep it that way. My occasional interactions with LEOs have not been affected by my carry status. I respect OC. I just usually don't OC unless I'm going to or coming from shooting, camping, etc. My choice.