KRRC allowed to use firearms again.

[Ranb]

Judge Roof ruled that the Kitsap Rifle and Revolver Club may resume the use of firearms at the club pending approval of the use permit the club recently applied for. http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/shoot...b7-7a87-1d8a-e053-0100007f3aee-374959071.html



The club's operating hours are limited to 9am - 7pm. Machine guns, cannons and explosives are currently prohibited. Judge Serko has also prohibited the use of any firearms greater than 30 caliber. She had previously tried to block the use of any rifles greater than 30 caliber but recently decided to prohibit the use of any weapon greater than 30 caliber. This includes shotguns, handguns and muzzle loaders, it might even include bow/arrows. Needless to say this is very annoying to many people. I'm not sure what the rationale is behind the idea that a 7mm magnum rifle with a muzzle brake (noise and max range) is going to less of a concern than a 9mm pistol equipped with a silencer. Maybe someone will get an explanation from her that makes sense.



On 17 April a neighbor called 911 to complain about club members using guns >30 caliber; not sure why he thought this was happening. A police deputy arrived at the range and was given permission by the shooters to examine their firearms; he saw that the guns used were 17hmr, 22lr and 223 calibers. The KRRC filed a PDR and found out the name/address of the person as well as details of the complaint.



This afternoon (23rd) the police again showed up in response to a complaint about weapons greater than 30 caliber used at the range. I heard it was another 911 call; not sure if it was the same guy as before. The Deputy requested permission to inspect the firearms; I had a 5.56, 22lr, 17hmr and a 7mm tcu; the only other bench in use had a .308 AR-10. The deputy said the prosecutor's office told the police that any firearm stamped with a caliber beginning with ".30" was acceptable for use under the current restrictions.



Attendence at the range has been very light. While the range is restricted to members/guests at the moment; the public will be welcome back the first week of May. Hope to see more of you there.



Randy

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[nammac]

To me, the real question is who was established in the geographical location first... The club or the neighbor???

If the club was there first, the neighbor should have been told to go pound sand as the club is grandfathered... Period...

Another liberal, consuming government resources, no doubt...

 

[Doc In UPlace]

It's really interesting that the complaining party knew about this .30 cal. restriction.
Was the judge's nonsense decision given a lot of media attention? Or any at all, I wonder?

 

[Ranb]

To me, the real question is who was established in the geographical location first... The club or the neighbor???

The KRRC has been on the same property since 1926, longer than any of the neighbors.

If the club was there first, the neighbor should have been told to go pound sand as the club is grandfathered... Period...

State law exempts gun ranges from noise laws during normal operating hours. But Judge Serko used the law that says any use of property that reduces the enjoyment of your neighbor's land can be deemed a nuisance. In other words all a person had to say was that they did not like the noise from the range and the KRRC was screwed.

It's really interesting that the complaining party knew about this .30 cal. restriction.
Was the judge's nonsense decision given a lot of media attention? Or any at all, I wonder?

Any time the KRRC is screwed over by the courts it is news in the Kitsap Sun, sometimes on the front page. The 30 cal nonsense has been covered in the news media for a while ever since the KRRC lost the first lawsuit.

Many of the complainers are members of a group called Central Kitsap Safe and Quiet. One of their members lives on land bordering the KRRC to the west. He used to shoot on his own land; it seems his noise and tiny berm was acceptable but the KRRC's large berms and noise were not.

Another member of CKSQ is Kevin Gross. He claims that he can hear and feel gunfire concussion from inside his home 1-2/3 miles away. Yes, I think he is lying.

Randy

 

[Ranb]

The club just got a 90 day stay of execution.

Kitsap Rifle and Revolver Club given 90 days to apply for permit

Kitsap Rifle and Revolver Club has been given 90 days to apply for a land-use permit to avoid a contempt-of-court ruling by a judge in Pierce County Superior Court.

Attorneys for the club and for Kitsap County appeared Friday before Judge Susan Serko, who declined to shut down the club's operations, as county attorneys had requested. The judge stated clearly, however, that she would not tolerate ongoing delays.

Wow, Judge Serko is human after all. I had expected that she shut the club down again and require them to pay the $1950.00 costs of filing the contempt of court fee.

Brooks Foster, the club's attorney, told the judge that the club has done its best to meet the deadline for submitting its application for a "site development activity permit." But the club's insurance company, which has paid the club's legal costs in its lawsuit with the county, has so far declined to pay for work needed to complete the application.

The club simply does not have the financial resources on its own to pay the $158,000 it would take for site analysis, plans and other documents needed to submit a complete application, according to Foster.

I looked at the 990 form that club files as a non-profit entity, it shows them as being in the red. Not sure where the $158,00 is going to come from if the insurance company is not going to pay.

"One of the questions I have," said Serko, "is why did the club not come to the court and say this is impossible, that 180 days is too short. Why not come back to the court and say you need more time."

Foster said he advised the county's attorneys of his efforts to get Northland to commit to payment, and he asked the county attorneys to hold off on a warrant of abatement — which he thought was the county's next move. Foster said he was completely surprised by the county's contempt-of-court motion.

Christy Palmer, attorney for the county, said an abatement action is an "extreme remedy" that could require county money to remove shooting bays constructed without permits and to restore damaged wetlands. A lien could be placed on the property to recover the costs, but there is little assurance that the costs could be recovered.

I'm certain the club would not be able to pay any large costs associated with construction the county might want especially since the county is trying to bankrupt the club with restrictions that have nothing to do with safety and noise.

In the meantime, if the county chooses to move forward with abatement of improper land-use activities on the property, that would be appropriate, Serko said.

This would be bad news. We certainly don't need the judge encouraging the county to make that kind of move.

Meanwhile the county still has not issued the operating permit that is now required to operate a rifle range.

Last week we were allowed to resume use of handguns and shotguns of >30 caliber. The club is still prohibited from using rifles >30 caliber, machine guns, cannons and explosives as well as operating hours from 9am to 7pm.

Randy

 

[Derbel McDillet]

Sadly, KRRC has been committing a slow suicide for years.

 

[The Heretic]

Sounds like they are trying to kill the club by a thousand cuts of harrasment.

 

[Ranb]

Sadly, KRRC has been committing a slow suicide for years.

Why do you say that?

 

[mjbskwim]

Why do you say that?

I would agree from what I read about it when you first posted about this a couple? years ago.
They went from operating at normal hours to extended hours,then went to classes with rapid fire?
Kinda went from a neighborhood range to a training facility.
But that is rediculous if someone believes someone feels the cuncussion from a mile away.
Sure doesn't mean Ft Lewis? Lol

 

[Ranb]

They went from operating at normal hours to extended hours,

What extended hours? The hours were normally anytime during daylight with a few people (even on the last several years) shooting a bit later.

then went to classes with rapid fire?

It is a rapid fire range. What are these classes you refer to? I saw the occasional class on personal safety and rifles, but the amount of ammo expended during these classes is dwarfed by the amount of ammo expended by the members and public on a typical weekend.

Kinda went from a neighborhood range to a training facility.

Since the vast majority of ammo expended at the range was informal target shooting by members and the public, I don't think it is fair to characterize the range as a training facility just because some training took place there.

Randy

 

[Derbel McDillet]

I was a member of KRRC for several years until I relocated out of the area in 2007. I returned a couple years ago. I haven't re-joined because of all the nonsense going on with the club (one issue being that the club insists on calling the membership fee a "donation", as if a member is giving the club a gift without any return consideration. See - Membership )

I enjoyed shooting there. In fact it was my favorite local range to shoot at. As a member I had the combination to the gate (and later a gate card when the new gate system was installed) and I could shoot from 7 AM to 10 PM, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, unsupervised.

After 9-11 the club allowed a government contractor to use the range to train military personnel.

KRRC used to be an NRA affiliated club. Everyone had to also be a member of the NRA. I used to help out with a couple of the NRA classes but then, IIRC, the lead Instructor for KRRC had all of his Instructor credentials revoked by the NRA, allegedly because he had live ammunition in the classroom (his loaded CCW pistol in a holster on his hip), which violated the NRA's rules. It wasn't long afterward that the club stopped being an NRA affiliated club. In addition, KRRC stopped offering NRA classes and began "KRRC classes".

Club CEO Marcus Carter's criminal prosecution by the state, for possessing an AR-15 that apparently had a drop in auto-sear installed, along with other M16 parts, has led to a persecution complex by many club members, with them believing the county prosecutor has it out for the club because Carter "beat the prosecutor's office" (which is untrue because every appeal by the county has been ruled in favor of the county by the Washington Supreme Court). The county eventually dropped the case (see - Charges against rifle club executive dismissed after 13 years )

It seems the club's leadership has poor judgment which has created expensive legal problems for the club. Who is going to spend ("donate") $200 ($100 initiation fee plus $100 annual fee) to join a shooting club that the court can shut down seemingly at any moment (and has in the past)? Who wants to "donate" $100 to renew their membership in a shooting club where they couldn't shoot at for more than a year because the club was shut down by court order?

IMHO, the leadership at KRRC needs to be replaced because they've led the club into unnecessary, expensive legal problems with the county, which has affected membership, and the club is slowly dying. As membership dwindles the diehards remain and it seems they're killing the club.

 

[Wolf256]

This is why we applied at Poulsbo Sportsmans in Poulsbo. It is closer to where we live. It is NRA sanctioned and has a more reasonable fee with no strings attached. There is no rapid fire during public hours. Although if you are a LEO you may be able to get permission from the RO.

I heard last week that KRRC was again open, from someone that works the Sportsmans Warehouse gun counter. That person said they were open for all handgun calibers. Don't know if it is in fact correct.

 

[Ranb]

I haven't re-joined because of all the nonsense going on with the club (one issue being that the club insists on calling the membership fee a "donation", as if a member is giving the club a gift without any return consideration. See - Membership )

I don't see why this would be a problem, the price is the same.

KRRC used to be an NRA affiliated club. Everyone had to also be a member of the NRA.

Is this an important issue?

I used to help out with a couple of the NRA classes but then, IIRC, the lead Instructor for KRRC had all of his Instructor credentials revoked by the NRA, allegedly because he had live ammunition in the classroom (his loaded CCW pistol in a holster on his hip), which violated the NRA's rules.

Evidence to support this claim?

It wasn't long afterward that the club stopped being an NRA affiliated club. In addition, KRRC stopped offering NRA classes and began "KRRC classes".

Is there a big deal why they are not NRA classes?

The county eventually dropped the case

What I read was the county wanted the case dismissed without prejudice; the judge dismissed it with prejudice. In other words the county didn't get what they wanted and is not going to try him again.

Who wants to "donate" $100 to renew their membership in a shooting club where they couldn't shoot at for more than a year because the club was shut down by court order?

The PSC has a similar fee. I pay $125 for family membership for my wife and I to shoot there. If I was a yearly member at KRRC my wife could shoot with me for free.


The shutdowns are a big problem and costing the club members though.

IMHO, the leadership at KRRC needs to be replaced because they've led the club into unnecessary, expensive legal problems with the county, which has affected membership, and the club is slowly dying. As membership dwindles the diehards remain and it seems they're killing the club.

That is up to the club membership. I'm not sure by what margin Mr. Carter was re-elected, but he and the president were not unopposed as I recall.


The club will remain alive as long as the county permits it. But for the last several years the county has been rather unfriendly as shown by their willingness to discourage the use of noise abatement at a range they sued over noise; as well as their refusal to explain why after the BATFE and WA AG told them that the Dangerous Weapons statute (9.41.250) did not equate a box to a weapon.

 

[Ranb]

This is why we applied at Poulsbo Sportsmans in Poulsbo. It is closer to where we live. It is NRA sanctioned and has a more reasonable fee with no strings attached. There is no rapid fire during public hours. Although if you are a LEO you may be able to get permission from the RO.

I heard last week that KRRC was again open, from someone that works the Sportsmans Warehouse gun counter. That person said they were open for all handgun calibers. Don't know if it is in fact correct.

The only strings attached at KRRC is the ten hours a year for range maintenance. I understand it is not everyone's cup of tea though.

Shotguns and handguns of any caliber can now be used at KRRC. Rifles >30 caliber (never got a good reason for that one), MG's cannon and explosives are still prohibited.

My only gripes with PSC are their reluctance to allow use of metal targets (they do sometimes), no rapid fire (I've never been able to obtain permission) and caliber restrictions. It seems that 50 BMG was banned after the guy in charge of berm maintenance griped about the damage they cause; a legitimate complaint.

I tried to get the 50 BMG restriction eased, but got no where at the meeting. I wanted 50 BMG allowed for those equipped with silencers and shooting reduced (1800 fps) velocity ammo. The people at the meeting were completely opposed to any 50 BMG shooting no matter how effective the noise abatement or how low the muzzle energy.

When I suggested that two days a month be devoted to allowing 50 BMG with use of a bullet trap and bench mounted noise abatement, I was unable to find anyone in the club who would support it.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

LOL this range sounds like 4 corners almost. more reason i wont join a range. especially 4 corners. they have so many rules its BS.

 

[Derbel McDillet]

I don't see why this would be a problem, the price is the same.

IMO, the word "donation" instead of "membership fee" is indicative of larger problems at KRRC.

Is this an important issue?

It is for some.

Evidence to support this claim?

My intention wasn't to dump on Marcus Carter, but since you asked, it was Carter who had all his NRA Instructor certifications revoked. You can ask him yourself if this is true or not.

Is there a big deal why they are not NRA classes?

NRA training certificates are nationally recognized and accepted as proof of formal training in every government jurisdiction I'm aware of. If a student moves to a different jurisdiction the NRA certificate is recognized. Because of this an NRA certificate has intrinsic value. Whereas a KRRC training certificate is no more valid than one from "Bubba's gun school".

The PSC has a similar fee. I pay $125 for family membership for my wife and I to shoot there. If I was a yearly member at KRRC my wife could shoot with me for free.

Like I said earlier, I prefer the KRRC shooting range over PSC, and the weekend I was going to re-join KRRC was when the headline 'Judge Rules Gun Club Can Be Shut Down" appeared on the front page of the Kitsap Sun (see - Judge rules gun club can be shut down ). I joined PSC instead as I'd applied for membership about a year earlier (as a contingency in case there were problems at KRRC) and I made the list.

With KRRC if you don't get your 10 "club participation" points then you have to fork over an additional $10 for every point you didn't earn for the year to maintain "member in good standing". I used to help with the NRA classes and at the club's booth at the county fair to earn my points.