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False equivalency between secure areas of airports that have metal detectors, x-ray machines, and body scanners, and public schools, which have none of those things. Apples and oranges.

Not according to the Supreme Court of the United States. Schools are named to be one of the sensitive areas. Yet I wasn't really trying to examine whether it is the same, I just stated that if one is questioning whether something is appropriate, doesn't automatically make him an anti.


Last time I checked, children go places other than home and school, such as McDonalds, the mall, Fred Meyers, movie theaters, parks, zoos, playgrounds, Safeway, Burgerville, Burger King, toy stores, etc. Concealed carriers also go to all of those places. Should we ban concealed carry in all of those places too, because some people are not comfortable with guns being around their children?

Most of the listed places are private businesses, they are free to enact any rules they like. For instance, Costco does not allow firearms in their stores. Other places are public property, and it is a fair game for antis to try to restrict carry in there. Still, merely questioning the policy doesn't make one an anti :)
 
Costco doesn't allow guns?!:s0095: I must have missed the sign.

It doesn't have to be posted in general, plus Costco is a club without public access. Gun restrictions are written in their membership agreement.
What you really missed is the story in Nevada where an Army vet got gunned down by trigger happy cops responding to a call from a nervous Costco employee.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/slaying-of-army-veteran-shocks-friends-98223884.html
http://pjmedia.com/blog/gunned-down-in-vegas-what-really-happened-to-erik-scott/

From: Stephanie Bradley [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:43 PM
To: Investor Relations
Subject: RE: Banning guns

Dear Mr. xxx,

This email is in response to your October 20, 2006 letter to our Investor Relations department, regarding Costco's "No Firearms" policy at its warehouse stores.

As an initial matter, Costco is not a place of "public accommodation" within the meaning of civil rights laws. The definition of "public accommodation" does not include a bona fide private club or other establishment that is not in fact open to the public. Costco Wholesale is a membership-only warehouse club. It is not open to the general public. It restricts membership to a limited group of qualified individuals who agree to membership conditions. We have the right, and the obligation to our members, to enact and enforce membership rules. The Member Service Employees at the exit doors are obliged to follow these rules. By obtaining a Costco membership card, our members agree to comply with the Membership Rules and the Privileges and Conditions of membership.

Costco does not believe that it is necessary for firearms to be brought into its warehouse stores, except in the case of authorized law enforcement officers. For the protection of all our members and employees, we feel this is a reasonable and prudent precaution to ensure a pleasant shopping experience and safe workplace. Our policy is meant to protect our members and employees in all warehouses around the world. This is not a new policy and we do not customize the policy for each individual city/county/state/country where we do business.The shopping experience is not enhanced by bringing a firearm into our warehouse.

Our primary goal at Costco Wholesale is to keep our members happy.

Sincerely,

Stephanie Bradley
Executive Assistant to:
. . Joel Benoliel - SVP-Legal & Administration
. . Paul Latham - VP-Membership, Marketing & Services
[email protected]

http://jpfo.org/alerts/alert20061031.htm
 
Gee, I never read those fine print agreements. Guess Costco doesn't need my money when I go to buy a gun safe. That's in the fine print of my agreement to frequent gun friendly establishmets like the BiMart "club". Costco certainly has the right to make the rules for their "club" as I have the right to go elsewhere. Thanks for reading the fine print for me.
 
Clearly his "concern" isn't that employees aren't allowed to carry, but that parents or visitors are allowed to carry.
His concern isn't that firearms are prohibited in buildings or arenas, but that some people are still able to "walk across campus carrying a firearm".

Perhaps he is against carry on school grounds, and certain other places. Does that make him anti CCW in general ?
 
Not according to the Supreme Court of the United States. Schools are named to be one of the sensitive areas. Yet I wasn't really trying to examine whether it is the same, I just stated that if one is questioning whether something is appropriate, doesn't automatically make him an anti.




Most of the listed places are private businesses, they are free to enact any rules they like. For instance, Costco does not allow firearms in their stores. Other places are public property, and it is a fair game for antis to try to restrict carry in there. Still, merely questioning the policy doesn't make one an anti :)

Please cite where the US Supreme Court has said that schools are a "sensitive area"? When they struck DOWN the original GFZ law?

Schools are not a "sensitive" area according to the OR supreme court, so you must be think of the US Supreme court...where has the US Supreme court called a school a "sensitive" area? I believe you will find quite the opposite.
 
Please cite where the US Supreme Court has said that schools are a "sensitive area"? When they struck DOWN the original GFZ law?

Schools are not a "sensitive" area according to the OR supreme court, so you must be think of the US Supreme court...where has the US Supreme court called a school a "sensitive" area? I believe you will find quite the opposite.

Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court's opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.

Heller v. DC
 
Do we actually know what was in HB4045? Last I heard, it had been gutted, restructured and didn't look anything like it was originally intended. Am I mistaken?
 
I still want a list published of all those in Oregon who do not own guns! We have a right to know who in our neighborhood is incapable of protecting their family, home and property!
 
Apparently he wasn't against it in 1998. I don't know what his position is in 2012. This is all I could find on his gun control positions.

That's good stuff. Another thing to consider is that he is a politician, and he would love to appeal to both groups :) Initially we expected that he would let the law go in effect without his signature, so that he could indicate to anti-gunners that he did not support it, and it was out of his control. But this might just be another way, where he pleases us, while gives some candy to our opponents too...
 
Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.

Heller v. DC

Actually the unlimited scope was the original intent EXCEPT for criminals and once their "debt to society" was fulfilled they were free to have arms. SCOTUS got that wrong too.
 
It doesn't have to be posted in general, plus Costco is a club without public access. Gun restrictions are written in their membership agreement.

I don't see it in the <broken link removed> or <broken link removed> (starts on page 20) anywhere. And the Costco I go to doesn't have any signs posted.

I'm not a believer in "it's concealed so I'll go wherever I want with a concealed weapon, even if there is a sign saying no," but if it's not posted, and it's not in something I agreed to, then it's not prohibited - regardless of what a letter from corporate public relations in another state says to a correspondent in another state.

Now the moment Costco puts signs on every store, and/or puts it in the agreement, I'm done being a member there.
 
I don't see it in the <broken link removed> or <broken link removed> (starts on page 20) anywhere. And the Costco I go to doesn't have any signs posted.

I'm not a believer in "it's concealed so I'll go wherever I want with a concealed weapon, even if there is a sign saying no," but if it's not posted, and it's not in something I agreed to, then it's not prohibited - regardless of what a letter from corporate public relations in another state says to a correspondent in another state.

Now the moment Costco puts signs on every store, and/or puts it in the agreement, I'm done being a member there.

You are correct, I don't see anything in those documents either. I will contact them to request the latest information.
 
Now don't go and mess it up for the rest of us! ;)

I'm surprised he wasn't asked to leave.

You see, Costco has an official un-official policy to disallow guns in their store. If they see someone carrying, they will ask them to leave with the excuse that some customer complained. If they don't see the gun, then generally nothing will happen based upon your observation that the general public is generally OK with seeing someone with a gun.

I myself was asked to leave the Tigard Costco when an employee saw me OC'ing one day.


http://www.northwestfirearms.com/ge...teresting-observations-open-carry-costco.html
 
gov.klitslober is still an anti american like all democrats.

Even though he is still an anti, Lets all send him a thank you for signing that bill at least.
Be bigger and more civil on this one.
You can rip on him for other stuff <LOL>
He did good on that bill at least.
 
Even though he is still an anti, Lets all send him a thank you for signing that bill at least.
Be bigger and more civil on this one.
You can rip on him for other stuff <LOL>
He did good on that bill at least.

Exactly. If we yell at "mild anti" politicians for not being pro often enough, you just convince them to ignore pro-gun constituents. If you praise them when they DO do something pro-gun, you let them know that they have pro-gun constituents that aren't just 100% against them all the time. (Like Floyd Prozanski - rather than bubbleguming about his inconsistency, send him a good letter when he does promote a pro-gun bill - rather than bubbleguming about how it isn't pro-gun enough.)
 
I don't see it in the <broken link removed> or <broken link removed> (starts on page 20) anywhere. And the Costco I go to doesn't have any signs posted.

I'm not a believer in "it's concealed so I'll go wherever I want with a concealed weapon, even if there is a sign saying no," but if it's not posted, and it's not in something I agreed to, then it's not prohibited - regardless of what a letter from corporate public relations in another state says to a correspondent in another state.

Now the moment Costco puts signs on every store, and/or puts it in the agreement, I'm done being a member there.

I've been shooting e-mails back and forth with them, but they haven't produced any documents. This is the latest :

Dear fd15k,

This email in response to your email dated April 13, 2012 regarding Costco’s “No
Firearms” policy at its warehouse stores. We apologize for any inconvenience this
policy might have caused you, however, this policy is administered at all our warehouses.
As an initial matter, Costco is not a place of “public accommodation” within the
meaning of civil rights laws. The definition of “public accommodation” does not include a
bona fide private club or other establishment that is not in fact open to the public.
Costco Wholesale is a membership-only warehouse club. It is not open to the
general public. It restricts membership to a limited group of qualified individuals who
agree to membership conditions. We have the right, and the obligation to our members,
to enact and enforce membership rules. The Member Service Employees at the exit doors
are obliged to follow these rules. By obtaining a Costco membership card, our members
agree to comply with the Membership Rules and the Privileges and Conditions of
membership.
Costco does not believe that it is necessary for firearms to be brought into its
warehouse stores, except in the case of authorized law enforcement officers. For the
protection of all our members and employees, we feel this is a reasonable and prudent
precaution to ensure a pleasant shopping experience and safe workplace. Our policy is
meant to protect our members and employees in all warehouses around the world. This is
not a new policy and we do not customize the policy for each individual
city/county/state/country where we do business.

The shopping experience is not enhanced by bringing a firearm into our warehouse.
We are sorry that the message you are hearing is that "we don't want you." It is the
firearms that we exclude in the warehouses, not the carriers.
Our primary goal at Costco Wholesale is to keep our members happy. If you believe
that our policy restricting members from bringing firearms into our warehouse stores is
either unfair or excessively burdensome, or you cannot agree to abide by this policy, or
you are dissatisfied for any other reason, Costco will promptly refund your annual
membership fee in full.

Sincerely,

Thank you,
Kim Sherrod

Executive Assistant to:
Tom Padilla - AVP Marketing/ Membership
Robin Ross - Sr. Director
(425) 427-7575
(253) 334-0320 cell
(425) 416-3159 fax
 
I've been shooting e-mails back and forth with them, but they haven't produced any documents. This is the latest :

Thank you,
Kim Sherrod

Executive Assistant to:
Tom Padilla - AVP Marketing/ Membership
Robin Ross - Sr. Director
(425) 427-7575
(253) 334-0320 cell
(425) 416-3159 fax

This person has no more authority to set Costco Policy than I do. She does not sign for her boss, she signs for herself. I do not care what she says, when it is in the official documentation for membership, then it is "Policy"..not when some secretary signs an email.

I have owned my own business, I have been in management in a public corporation, believe me, this whole email is some secretary's personal opinion and NOTHING MORE!
 

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