Kitsap Prosecutor seeks to shut down rifle range.

[Ranb]

I think the range club has the lead issues under control. But you can contact them if you want.

Ranb

 

[Celtic Armory]

The thing that gets me is that for any rounds to even reach the school or the housing neighborhood a person would have to be aiming above the trees. Any shots over the berms but below the tree tops is going to hit trees. With over a mile of dense woods, you can't miss a tree. So IF shots are leaving the range it's from people being VERY stupid. But the RSOs are so on top of people being even slightly stupid that I seriously doubt any round has actually left the range. Any homes that have rounds coming through windows was probably shot by someone a bit closer and not monitored.

 

[Carpenter98312]

The thing that gets me is that for any rounds to even reach the school or the housing neighborhood a person would have to be aiming above the trees. Any shots over the berms but below the tree tops is going to hit trees. With over a mile of dense woods, you can't miss a tree. So IF shots are leaving the range it's from people being VERY stupid. But the RSOs are so on top of people being even slightly stupid that I seriously doubt any round has actually left the range. Any homes that have rounds coming through windows was probably shot by someone a bit closer and not monitored.

Carefull or they will say the trees are in danger.....

 

[motoman98]

Tri County Gun Club aka Tri County Training Facility has faced the development problem around a range established in the 1940's. All ranges now have very tall berms to shoot into, walls on the left and right, AND overhead beams(concrete) to absolutely stop ANY bullets from leaving the range.
Check them out, they have sucessfully addressed this problem.

 

[Celtic Armory]

DAGNABBIT!!! I got distracted with making dinner and after dinner chores and completely forgot the meeting at the county chambers. Can someone who was there (anyone?) update us on what was said.

 

[swampertwo]

I just moved up from Vancouver and our range had similar problems. Your Board might want to contact the President of Clark Rifles--they have a signed agreement with the association of the neighborhood (freshly done) and it could help this situation.
Contact Bob Kadow via the website <broken link removed> and he can run you through all the info and even provide a generic agreement form--they just had a big meeting with NRA and a lot of people from other ranges, the NRA was highly enthused with what Clark has done to date. The Clark board is looking to start a State association for helping with problems like this and to develop some serious legislative influence

Jeff in Lake Cushman

 

[RobertJ.]

My question is: Exactly where does one go to school to become a 'shooting range expert'.

Keith

Wikipedia!

 

[Ranb]

I was at the commissioners meeting in Port Orchard yesterday. The rifle range lawsuit was not on the agenda because it is a Pierce county matter for now, but people were allowed to speak on the matter. Although Kitsap county commissioners provide the budget for the DA, the DA is not subject to their oversight as far as any legal actions he takes. This was brought up after several people asked to commissioners to do something about the lawsuit.

Another person who spoke also claimed that the concerns of the people planning schools and housing developments end at the property line of the development. It seems rather strange that they would not take any other potential hazards into account, but perhaps they do not. I need to look into this more.

Ranb

 

[Ranb]

The thing that gets me is that for any rounds to even reach the school or the housing neighborhood a person would have to be aiming above the trees.

To obtain the max range on most small arms, the barrel has to be tilted up at about 30 degrees. This would enable the bullet to clear the berm, leave the range and stay above the trees until it came back down.

The only ways to prevent this (afaik) are training/supervision or use an obstacle like a concrete barrier downrange.

Ranb

 

[Celtic Armory]

I don't see how the Kitsap County DA can file a COUNTY lawsuit in Pierce County. His claim is that KRRC is violating COUNTY laws not state. It's a complete bs move and I hope Pierce County tosses it out.

 

[Celtic Armory]

To obtain the max range on most small arms, the barrel has to be tilted up at about 30 degrees. This would enable the bullet to clear the berm, leave the range and stay above the trees until it came back down.

The only ways to prevent this are training/supervision or use an obstacle like a concrete barrier downrange.

Ranb

Right. And the RSOs are the best I've ever seen. They are on top of anyone being stupid and aiming high or low. I've seen them get on several people, including my boy, just for target placement knowing that a round would hit the ground. The only way to absolutely 100% PREVENT any round from leaving the range (other than by shutting down the range) would be to encase the entire place in steel reinforced concrete, which is NOT an option.

 

[swampertwo]

Can't stop the skipping off range, but can put baffles in front of the shooting line to stop any high angle shots.

 

[2506]

Maybe the problem stems more from uncontrolled development than anti-gun prosecutors? I know that many areas that I used to shoot now have prohibitions against discharging firearms because of encroaching development.
That's the price we pay when cities and counties refuse to stand up to developers!

I'd agree with the above statement. The root cause of the problem is probably real estate developers are pressuring the County dude. There's two solutions: outbid the developers for the the dude's vote; or, vote him out. Voting him out only delays the problem, if in fact developers are lobbying him.

 

[Ranb]

I have been trying to find a copy of the lawsuit online. Anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks.

Ranb

 

[Ranb]

Here are the lawsuit details. <broken link removed> The complaint has a long list of alleged violations of Kitsap ordinances. The Allison complaint paints a rather bleak picture of living near the range. <broken link removed> I do not know how accurate the Allison complaint is, but the range has to be good neighbors with the people nearby.

Ranb

 

[riverrat373]

Here are the lawsuit details. <broken link removed> The complaint has a long list of alleged violations of Kitsap ordinances. The Allison complaint paints a rather bleak picture of living near the range. <broken link removed> I do not know how accurate the Allison complaint is, but the range has to be good neighbors with the people nearby.

Ranb

If the Allison report is accurate, I would say that the Kitsap Rifle Club is not being a good neighbor. It does not matter who was there first, things are what they are and it is the responsibility of the range to conduct its self in a safe AND neighborly way. Again, I qualify my opinion on the accuracy of the suit.

 

[Celtic Armory]

Having read most of the 33 pages (particularly the majority of his complaint which starts about 10 pages in) it's mostly BS. He cites machine gun fire at 2 am? Anyone on that property at 2 am is in violation of club rules and may not even be members. Automatic fire on the range? Only by the United States NAVY, Kitsap County SHERIFF DEPUTIES, or other LEO. The Navy does train there on occasion. Also he sites pictures taken during the last 4th of July celebration and misrepresents and misidentifies several firearms claiming they are full auto when had he been there (instead of being a douche) he would have seen they were legal semi auto. He complains about Tannerite (which is LEGAL) and complains about the BP cannons (also LEGAL) and makes a claim that they were shooting concrete fill steel cans. But since he wasn't there (I was) he couldn't have known that the only thing the cannons fired was BREAD. White Wonder bread as I recall, or it may have been Frans.

He talks about asking to get access to the whole range for his GPS hunt but instead of working with Marcus Carter to arrange a time to come by during a work party when the range would be shut down, he insisted that Marcus shut an active range down for the day so he could walk around. I would have told him "No" too.

Then he complains about the earth moving equipment and the work being done to change the direction of fire (which was being done to redirect the fire direction so as to avoid the closer homes and the school) and violates club rules to get DNR and County people on the land to get a cease work order, but then complains that he lives down range of the rifle line.

The guy purchased the land and had his house built RIGHT NEXT DOOR to an active rifle range and then 22 years later complains about the amount of shooting and noise level from the range. But instead of helping the range figure out a better arrangement he gets his panties in a bunch and calls in the one dog that has been trying to eat up Marcus Carter for the past decade.

This is BS. I hope the Carters and the range get decent lawyers and decent witnesses in order to get this stupid case tossed out.

 

[coyote223]

Why shouldn't the taxpayer have to foot the bill, to fix the problem (if there even is one)? It's their elected officials that were asleep at the wheel. The taxpayers should take some responsibility for the people they put in office. Back your candidate, it's the right thing to do. It shouldn't be all put on the range and members. After all, they were there first.

Anybody that knowingly moves next to a firing range, should have zero rights to complain about the noise. IMO

They way they make it sound, there is a lot of rich people with full auto's up there.

Every range that I've been to, only allows you to shoot paper. Interesting that they allow tannerite on the range.

 

[Celtic Armory]

KRRC will allow "exotic" targets IF it is cleared with Marcus Carter first. Tannerite is one of those that is acceptable because while it is a binary explosive, it's a very safe one. The range rule on it is it's only to be used at 100+ yards on the rifle range. Tannerite is a great way to be sure you actually hit your target when shooting at the 200 yard line.

 

[Ranb]

Every range that I've been to, only allows you to shoot paper. Interesting that they allow tannerite on the range.

There are several metal targets that I routinely punch holes in with my 50 cal or whack with smaller rifles. Clay pigeons, metal poppers, pumpkins and water jugs are also shot at on the KRRC range.

Ranb