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KEL-TEC PMR-30
- Thread Starter FIVE7EVEN
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I looked at the Portland show and could not find one. Wanted to see how it felt bummer oh well next big show maybe. if anyone has got one could you reply and let use konw how you like it. Big 22 mag fan.
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Thanks Deadeye
Good read. hope they got all the issues resolved. Im looking forward to buying one.
Good read. hope they got all the issues resolved. Im looking forward to buying one.
- Thread Starter
- #5
Thanks deadeye. Good range report / bad stuff with that particular gun. I agree with cyclesurvival: I will still buy one unless manufacturing crashes altogether. Kel-tec is a viable shop so I'm sure this will get worked out, soon.
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Over on the Kel Tec forum they have had a couple with out of battery discharges resulting in blown slides and plastic shrapnel. Not going to bite on these for a long while and will have to wait on the shotty as well. Don't like an out of battery shot right next to my face.
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Well, I'll hafta say you have certainly convinced me...
- Thread Starter
- #8
OUCH, that starts a whole new line of thinking and a call to Kel-Tec.
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I have been watching consumer reviews on these guns since the day they hit the street. I love the idea and would really like to see them add adjustable sights and a threaded barrel option. I absolutely will not buy one, however, until the bugs are worked out. I really don't get the guys on ktog forum who think it's all good as long as you can send it back to Kel Tec when it doesn't work. I'm only interested in firearms that I can expect to run reliably and accurately ougt of the box. Currently, though it may be improving, chances seem less than 50-50 of that happening.
gary
gary
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August 24, 2010
Kel-Tec Sheds Light on the Shortage of PMR-30 Pistols
Filed under: Handguns,News — Tags: Handguns, News — CTD Blogger @ 3:18 PM
Click here to check the current in stock status of the PMR-30.
I get literally dozens of calls and emails nearly every day with people wanting to know if they can get the PMR-30 yet, when it will be available, and what the hold up is. We've been bugging Kel-Tec as well to find out what the hold up is.
Kel-Tec gave us this response today:
No, we are not at full production on PMR-30s. It has nothing to do with the product but more with the time line we set to release the PMR-30.
Back in January we announced that Q2 was the release date. It was based on estimated time to move from prototype to full production. What we had in January was a working model, but was not made on production CNC machines.
Our estimation proved to be quite off in terms of development. We noticed it before release but felt if we really pushed ourselves we could meet the Q2 release. The first batch of 80 or so, were done by that deadline, but had not been tested extensively (as we do with any first production run). After testing we found some inconsistencies in the CNC work and did some re-tweaking to fix it.
Since that first batch we've sent several other batches out, each with it's own new little fix. All of the fire arms that have been sent out work, but in the course of production we've found little adjustments here and there that are improvements.
In all honesty this is stuff that should have been going on before release.
What should have happened (because hindsight is 20/20) was that we push back that official release date until October at the earliest.
Basically we underestimated the time it would take us to get these badboys into full production.
So we had a choice: either stop production completely and just wait until a later date (angering those that were told July as a release date) or release smaller batches so the guns can at least see the light of day as production catches up (also angering customers as they see guns coming out but can't seem to get one). Obviously
we chose the latter (the right choice? this remains to be seen). The PMR-30s going out now are in working condition, but we've made that they may want to upgrade to, depending on serial number.
These parts will of course be free.
One thing we've discovered since shipping is that the PMR-30 does NOT like ammunition made in the Philippines (Armscor/Fiocci). The brass is weak and blows out.
So in conclusion: We are still making and shipping PMR-30s while production can get on track. They are still in small batches (30-70) and we are waiting on various redesigned parts to come back from heat treatment so we can start producing them in larger quantities.
Simply put we jumped the gun a bit on release (no pun intended), we acknowledge it, accept it, and are doing everything in our power to get things moving. In the meantime we are still sending out PMR-30s in small batches as we make them.
I hope this clarifies some things. My suggestion is to just pretend as if we set a release date for sometime in October and if you happen to come across a PMR-30 then it will be a pleasant surprise.
Kel-Tec Sheds Light on the Shortage of PMR-30 Pistols
Filed under: Handguns,News — Tags: Handguns, News — CTD Blogger @ 3:18 PM
Click here to check the current in stock status of the PMR-30.
I get literally dozens of calls and emails nearly every day with people wanting to know if they can get the PMR-30 yet, when it will be available, and what the hold up is. We've been bugging Kel-Tec as well to find out what the hold up is.
Kel-Tec gave us this response today:
No, we are not at full production on PMR-30s. It has nothing to do with the product but more with the time line we set to release the PMR-30.
Back in January we announced that Q2 was the release date. It was based on estimated time to move from prototype to full production. What we had in January was a working model, but was not made on production CNC machines.
Our estimation proved to be quite off in terms of development. We noticed it before release but felt if we really pushed ourselves we could meet the Q2 release. The first batch of 80 or so, were done by that deadline, but had not been tested extensively (as we do with any first production run). After testing we found some inconsistencies in the CNC work and did some re-tweaking to fix it.
Since that first batch we've sent several other batches out, each with it's own new little fix. All of the fire arms that have been sent out work, but in the course of production we've found little adjustments here and there that are improvements.
In all honesty this is stuff that should have been going on before release.
What should have happened (because hindsight is 20/20) was that we push back that official release date until October at the earliest.
Basically we underestimated the time it would take us to get these badboys into full production.
So we had a choice: either stop production completely and just wait until a later date (angering those that were told July as a release date) or release smaller batches so the guns can at least see the light of day as production catches up (also angering customers as they see guns coming out but can't seem to get one). Obviously
we chose the latter (the right choice? this remains to be seen). The PMR-30s going out now are in working condition, but we've made that they may want to upgrade to, depending on serial number.
These parts will of course be free.
One thing we've discovered since shipping is that the PMR-30 does NOT like ammunition made in the Philippines (Armscor/Fiocci). The brass is weak and blows out.
So in conclusion: We are still making and shipping PMR-30s while production can get on track. They are still in small batches (30-70) and we are waiting on various redesigned parts to come back from heat treatment so we can start producing them in larger quantities.
Simply put we jumped the gun a bit on release (no pun intended), we acknowledge it, accept it, and are doing everything in our power to get things moving. In the meantime we are still sending out PMR-30s in small batches as we make them.
I hope this clarifies some things. My suggestion is to just pretend as if we set a release date for sometime in October and if you happen to come across a PMR-30 then it will be a pleasant surprise.
- Thread Starter
- #11
This is good stuff and development issues of the "making the sausage" kind. KEL-Tec will work out the bugs and deliver a fine product as usual. I emailed them today for a clarification of the most recent operational issues and I will follow up with a phone call next week.
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Thanks 'deadeye' for posting information on the PMR-30 from Kel-Tec. Now I know that I will have to wait a while for my order that I placed six weeks ago. I don't mind waiting...I just want a good one when I get it. Kel-Tec has been good about standing behind thier products, but I do think they should iron out the bugs before the release a new products. Its not our job to find out and tell them whats wrong. The 22 mag is great. I had a Grendel P 30 for at least 10 years but sold it because the firing pins broke so often. A weak spot for sure. Firing pins cost $30 plus postage. I got tired of that.
If I ever get my PMR 30, I'll make a range report on it.
If I ever get my PMR 30, I'll make a range report on it.
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Tell Ya, as far as I am concerned you can blame events like The Shot Show for manufacturers turning out products before they have been adequately tested. I am also not happy with the "gotta get the next new thing" attitude I see in customers. I see too many recalls due to this attitude, and I really doubt that whatever extra profits there may be in pulling my & others "chain" for the new gun sale, that it can possibly cover what the recall is going to cost.
- Thread Starter
- #14
This article, dated 2-15-2011, appears in the new AMERICAN RIFLEMAN written by B. GIL HORMAN KEL-TEC PMR-30
I was introduced to the PMR-30 at the 2010 SHOT Show. I had heard rumors that Kel-Tec had something unusual in the works. When it comes to design and innovation, Kel-Tec rarely marches to the beat of anyone else's drum. So if this new pistol had everyone talking, I knew it must be something interesting indeed.
The PMR-30 is a full-size polymer frame semi-automatic pistol chambered in .22 Mag. If the chambering seems unusual, so does the magazine's 30-round capacity. A careful distribution of polymer and aluminum around key steel components has reduced the pistol's weight to a feathery 13.6 ounces when unloaded. A fully loaded magazine will only add 6 more ounces to the total weight.
The pistol has a narrow profile overall. The front-to-back distance in the grip is a bit longer than usual in order to accommodate .22 Mag. cartridges. The full-length grip also has a subtle pie-wedge shape, narrowing at the front under the trigger guard. The overall effect is a grip that is quite comfortable to work with, even for shooters with smaller hands. The PMR-30 has an ambidextrous safety that is easy to reach and operate. The slide arrives from the factory fitted with bright two-color, fiber-optic sites, and it's drilled and tapped to accommodate a scope base. The frame has an integrated Picatinny accessory rail to allow shooters to attach various lights and laser sights.
Kel-Tec chose to follow more of a European model for the magazine release by placing it at the heel of the grip, rather than up by the trigger guard. They also designed the magazines to stay in the grip until they are manually removed. These design choices are indicative of the pistol's intended use as a field and trail gun. Being able to quickly bump-and-dump a pistol's magazine using a thumb release is quite convenient on the range or during shooting competitions. It's not so helpful when the same bump of the thumb release dumps your magazine into the bushes during a three-day hike, never to be seen again. But even if you are not a fan of a heel release, Kel-Tec approached the design of the PMR-30 in a unique way.
Often a heel release is a metallic tab that rests under the grip against the base of the magazine. It has to be pressed back toward the shooting hand with the tip of a finger or thumb, which can be a bit awkward to do. The PMR-30 release is a rounded cut-out located in the heel of the frame. It's pressed forward, toward the pistol's muzzle, to release the magazine. It only requires a moderate amount of pressure to release the magazine with the tip of your thumb. I worked with this release to see if I could speed up the reloading process a bit, since the magazines do not fall free. I found that by pressing the heel of my non-shooting hand into the release tab, while hooking the front of the magazine base with my fingertips, it's easy to quickly strip out a spent magazine and insert a new one.
At The Range
First and foremost I have to say that this is an exceptionally enjoyable pistol to shoot. The light weight makes it easy to hold at arm's length for an extended period of time, and the recoil is mild. The .22 Mag. produces more noise and flash than .22 LR, but it's far from unpleasant. The grip shape, bright fiber-optic sights, light trigger pull and overall handling qualities of the pistol kept me reloading the magazines long after my required test shooting was over.
Though popular as a rifle and revolver round, few gunmakers have attempted to build a semi-auto pistol in .22 Mag. The case length, the case rim and variations in pressure levels of different brands of .22 Magnum ammunition are all features of the round that have caused reliability issues in the past. But Kel-Tec's engineers decided to put in the requisite elbow grease and solve these problems.
The pie-wedge shape of the magazine solves the problems of the cartridge rims, and allows the ammunition to be double-stacked and feed correctly. The hybrid action, blending features from blowback and locked-breach systems, successfully navigates the shifting pressure of different ammunition brands. It's a commendable design that works well in the field.
The PMR-30 likes brass-cased, American-made, high-power .22 Mag. ammunition. The three listed by name in the owner's manual are CCI's 40-grain Maxi-Mag, Winchester's Super-X 40 grain and Remington's Premier 30-grain loads. All three of these brands of ammunition fired and functioned flawlessly. Firing 5-shot groups at 25 yards from a rest, I got the best accuracy with the CCI Maxi-Mag, with average groups of 4 1/2 inches. Winchester came in second with 4 3/4-inch groups, followed by Remington at 5 1/4 inches.
After using the recommended rounds, I chose to continue to test the pistol with every other variety of .22 Mag. ammunition I could find. Almost all of them ran without any problems, but some produced a few failures to feed. As I observed the behavior of the ammunition and the pistol during these malfunctions, it became clear that these rounds had an overall length that was just a little too long for the magazine.
This variation in overall cartridge length caused the magazine follower to jam, which kept the rounds from feeding properly. The malfunctions stopped when I reduced the number of rounds in the magazine to five or 10 rounds, instead of the full 30. These same rounds that occasionally failed to feed have always shot reliably in the other guns I use. My advice is this: If you choose to use unlisted ammunition in this pistol, I would recommend you test out a box or two before you buy a case.
On the Road
This is a pistol designed with foot travel in mind, and several features of the PMR-30 make it ideal for outdoor exercise. Since my wife and I enjoy hiking in the great outdoors, I took the PMR-30 for a few nature strolls. The pistol is the same shape as most duty-size pistols, so this has to be taken into consideration if the pistol is going to be used for legal concealed carry. I used both inside-the-waistband and belt holsters to carry the PMR-30, and I found that holsters designed for standard size 9 mm and .40 S&W pistols work nicely. At just under 20 ounces fully loaded, this pistol is a pleasure to carry on long walks. Most modern backpacks and utility bags have several pockets and pouches to fit a variety of gear. It was easy to find a place in my pack for the PMR-30, a spare magazine and a 50-round box of ammunition. Best of all, the change in the pack's weight went unnoticed.
The PMR-30 can also serve as an excellent self-defense option for those who are looking for a low-recoil defensive handgun. It does take practice and a bit more time to exchange the magazines, but with a 30+1 capacity, frequent reloads don't seem to be much of a concern, and the reduced recoil and less expensive ammunition encourages regular practice.
As a fan of the .22 Mag. cartridge, I am very pleased that Kel-Tec built a lightweight, high-capacity semi-auto that shows off what this neat little cartridge can do. The PMR-30's design seems to offer a kind of universal appeal. Folks who have heard about it love the idea, and fellow shooters who took turns shooting the sample gun during my tests really enjoyed it. In fact, from the store, to the range and on my way home, I had three shooters offer to buy the PMR-30 right then and there. For hiking, camping, plinking, small game hunting and even self-defense, the PMR-30 is an excellent choice.
click to deleteManufacturer: Kel-Tec; Keltecweapons.com
Calibers: .22 Mag. (.22WMR)
Action Type: semi-auto, hybrid blowback/locked-breech system
Frame: 7075 aluminum covered by glass-reinforced Nylon
Barrel length: 4.3"
Rifling: 1:16" RH twist
Magazine: 30+1 rounds
Sights: Fiber Optic
Trigger pull: 3 lbs. 6 oz.
Overall Length: 7.9"
Weight: 13.6 oz.
Width: 1.3"
Height: 5.8"
Accessories: owner's manual, hard case, trigger lock, and two magazines
Suggested Retail Price: $415
I was introduced to the PMR-30 at the 2010 SHOT Show. I had heard rumors that Kel-Tec had something unusual in the works. When it comes to design and innovation, Kel-Tec rarely marches to the beat of anyone else's drum. So if this new pistol had everyone talking, I knew it must be something interesting indeed.
The PMR-30 is a full-size polymer frame semi-automatic pistol chambered in .22 Mag. If the chambering seems unusual, so does the magazine's 30-round capacity. A careful distribution of polymer and aluminum around key steel components has reduced the pistol's weight to a feathery 13.6 ounces when unloaded. A fully loaded magazine will only add 6 more ounces to the total weight.
The pistol has a narrow profile overall. The front-to-back distance in the grip is a bit longer than usual in order to accommodate .22 Mag. cartridges. The full-length grip also has a subtle pie-wedge shape, narrowing at the front under the trigger guard. The overall effect is a grip that is quite comfortable to work with, even for shooters with smaller hands. The PMR-30 has an ambidextrous safety that is easy to reach and operate. The slide arrives from the factory fitted with bright two-color, fiber-optic sites, and it's drilled and tapped to accommodate a scope base. The frame has an integrated Picatinny accessory rail to allow shooters to attach various lights and laser sights.
Kel-Tec chose to follow more of a European model for the magazine release by placing it at the heel of the grip, rather than up by the trigger guard. They also designed the magazines to stay in the grip until they are manually removed. These design choices are indicative of the pistol's intended use as a field and trail gun. Being able to quickly bump-and-dump a pistol's magazine using a thumb release is quite convenient on the range or during shooting competitions. It's not so helpful when the same bump of the thumb release dumps your magazine into the bushes during a three-day hike, never to be seen again. But even if you are not a fan of a heel release, Kel-Tec approached the design of the PMR-30 in a unique way.
Often a heel release is a metallic tab that rests under the grip against the base of the magazine. It has to be pressed back toward the shooting hand with the tip of a finger or thumb, which can be a bit awkward to do. The PMR-30 release is a rounded cut-out located in the heel of the frame. It's pressed forward, toward the pistol's muzzle, to release the magazine. It only requires a moderate amount of pressure to release the magazine with the tip of your thumb. I worked with this release to see if I could speed up the reloading process a bit, since the magazines do not fall free. I found that by pressing the heel of my non-shooting hand into the release tab, while hooking the front of the magazine base with my fingertips, it's easy to quickly strip out a spent magazine and insert a new one.
At The Range
First and foremost I have to say that this is an exceptionally enjoyable pistol to shoot. The light weight makes it easy to hold at arm's length for an extended period of time, and the recoil is mild. The .22 Mag. produces more noise and flash than .22 LR, but it's far from unpleasant. The grip shape, bright fiber-optic sights, light trigger pull and overall handling qualities of the pistol kept me reloading the magazines long after my required test shooting was over.
Though popular as a rifle and revolver round, few gunmakers have attempted to build a semi-auto pistol in .22 Mag. The case length, the case rim and variations in pressure levels of different brands of .22 Magnum ammunition are all features of the round that have caused reliability issues in the past. But Kel-Tec's engineers decided to put in the requisite elbow grease and solve these problems.
The pie-wedge shape of the magazine solves the problems of the cartridge rims, and allows the ammunition to be double-stacked and feed correctly. The hybrid action, blending features from blowback and locked-breach systems, successfully navigates the shifting pressure of different ammunition brands. It's a commendable design that works well in the field.
The PMR-30 likes brass-cased, American-made, high-power .22 Mag. ammunition. The three listed by name in the owner's manual are CCI's 40-grain Maxi-Mag, Winchester's Super-X 40 grain and Remington's Premier 30-grain loads. All three of these brands of ammunition fired and functioned flawlessly. Firing 5-shot groups at 25 yards from a rest, I got the best accuracy with the CCI Maxi-Mag, with average groups of 4 1/2 inches. Winchester came in second with 4 3/4-inch groups, followed by Remington at 5 1/4 inches.
After using the recommended rounds, I chose to continue to test the pistol with every other variety of .22 Mag. ammunition I could find. Almost all of them ran without any problems, but some produced a few failures to feed. As I observed the behavior of the ammunition and the pistol during these malfunctions, it became clear that these rounds had an overall length that was just a little too long for the magazine.
This variation in overall cartridge length caused the magazine follower to jam, which kept the rounds from feeding properly. The malfunctions stopped when I reduced the number of rounds in the magazine to five or 10 rounds, instead of the full 30. These same rounds that occasionally failed to feed have always shot reliably in the other guns I use. My advice is this: If you choose to use unlisted ammunition in this pistol, I would recommend you test out a box or two before you buy a case.
On the Road
This is a pistol designed with foot travel in mind, and several features of the PMR-30 make it ideal for outdoor exercise. Since my wife and I enjoy hiking in the great outdoors, I took the PMR-30 for a few nature strolls. The pistol is the same shape as most duty-size pistols, so this has to be taken into consideration if the pistol is going to be used for legal concealed carry. I used both inside-the-waistband and belt holsters to carry the PMR-30, and I found that holsters designed for standard size 9 mm and .40 S&W pistols work nicely. At just under 20 ounces fully loaded, this pistol is a pleasure to carry on long walks. Most modern backpacks and utility bags have several pockets and pouches to fit a variety of gear. It was easy to find a place in my pack for the PMR-30, a spare magazine and a 50-round box of ammunition. Best of all, the change in the pack's weight went unnoticed.
The PMR-30 can also serve as an excellent self-defense option for those who are looking for a low-recoil defensive handgun. It does take practice and a bit more time to exchange the magazines, but with a 30+1 capacity, frequent reloads don't seem to be much of a concern, and the reduced recoil and less expensive ammunition encourages regular practice.
As a fan of the .22 Mag. cartridge, I am very pleased that Kel-Tec built a lightweight, high-capacity semi-auto that shows off what this neat little cartridge can do. The PMR-30's design seems to offer a kind of universal appeal. Folks who have heard about it love the idea, and fellow shooters who took turns shooting the sample gun during my tests really enjoyed it. In fact, from the store, to the range and on my way home, I had three shooters offer to buy the PMR-30 right then and there. For hiking, camping, plinking, small game hunting and even self-defense, the PMR-30 is an excellent choice.
click to deleteManufacturer: Kel-Tec; Keltecweapons.com
Calibers: .22 Mag. (.22WMR)
Action Type: semi-auto, hybrid blowback/locked-breech system
Frame: 7075 aluminum covered by glass-reinforced Nylon
Barrel length: 4.3"
Rifling: 1:16" RH twist
Magazine: 30+1 rounds
Sights: Fiber Optic
Trigger pull: 3 lbs. 6 oz.
Overall Length: 7.9"
Weight: 13.6 oz.
Width: 1.3"
Height: 5.8"
Accessories: owner's manual, hard case, trigger lock, and two magazines
Suggested Retail Price: $415
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- 31
It seems like a lot of companies are using early adopters as beta testers to iron out any problems. that might occur. It might save them time/money, but I think these companies lose face in the process. But with the fast pace of development of new products and the fact that the firearms industry seems to be pretty rabid about pilfering other people's designs that it seems like you are screwed no matter what you do and the advent of the internet has only exacerbated the problem.
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- 8
Lots of info on them over on the KTOG.org forums... typical for a first gen gun there are some issues popping up but Kel Tec has top notch customer service and will back up their guns %110.
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It's a kel tec.
I do like the 22mag idea,but wouldn't be able to pull the trigger on a $400 keltec
And absolutely no way in HE*LL I would pay $7-800 on that kel tec shotgun.
I have heard about too many kel tecs blowing up at ranges. Heck I have never had a salesman want to sell me one with a straight face.
I do like the 22mag idea,but wouldn't be able to pull the trigger on a $400 keltec
And absolutely no way in HE*LL I would pay $7-800 on that kel tec shotgun.
I have heard about too many kel tecs blowing up at ranges. Heck I have never had a salesman want to sell me one with a straight face.
- Thread Starter
- #18
SERIOUSLY?,mjbskwim SAYS KEL-TECS BLOW UP ALL THE TIME AT RANGES AND SALESMEN LAUGH, INTERNALLY, DURING TRANSACTIONS NOT ABLE TO KEEP A STRAIGHT FACE? THIS COULD BE THE MOST HONEST INFO GLEANED ABOUT THIS COMPANY SO FAR. COMPELLING, BUT IS IT ACCURATE? mjbskwim THIS IS NOT A DIS. I HAVE NOT HEARD THIS SLANT BEFORE AND I STARTED THIS THREAD TO GET THE SCOOP. YOU JUST KICKED THE STOOL AND THE ROPE IS GETTING TIGHT AROUND THE NECK OF THIS PMR-30 THING.
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Interestingly I have never heard of a Kel-Tec blow-up, apart from possible early 40 S&W & .357 Sig chamberings, pray tell--What have you seen?
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Took a while to find but I was sure PBP had some personal experience with bad KelTec's:
http://www.northwestfirearms.com/ge...t-gun-forums-make-you-laugh-8.html#post337167
http://www.northwestfirearms.com/ge...t-gun-forums-make-you-laugh-8.html#post337167
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