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Kel-tec PF9 Out of the fight

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by TapRackNGo, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. TapRackNGo

    TapRackNGo PNW Well-Known Member

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    So my buddy just received his concealed permit and we were running through some drills. Simply drawing at first, working up to a mock situation towards the end of the day. I set his Kel-tec PF9 up as a double feed, magazine wasn't clicked in, but very close. Set it ejection port down, 2rds in mag. The drill was he had to run 20ft to his gun, pick it up, diagnose and get it running and shoot two plates. Two shots on each plate. I also (without him knowing) placed my G19 with a FTE chamber side down 7ft away in the dirt, with 4rds in mag.

    I also told him, nobody says you will be able to fight with your personal gun in a gunfight and left it at that. He was turned away so he didn't see what was going on until I told him to RUN. He sprints towards his pistol laying in the dirt and tries to fire it, nothing. Racks the slide, fires one round, then nothing. Racks the slide again and this is what happened. I may have had the order of events slightly wrong because I don't know how this could have happened? The round flipped around and wedged in the chamber. The Kel-tec PF9 was DONE, out of the fight.

    20130714_201318_zpsd6a37458.jpg

    The look of desperation on his face was amazing. This guy is in the moment for sure. He takes a quick glance around and sees my Glock 19 7ft away :thumbup:. Tries to fire, nothing, taps the mag, racks the slide and he put 1 more round in the left plate, and two in the right. Completing the 2 shots in each plate. I was simply amazed that he was able to do this. I was yelling at him the whole time, inducing a little stress :cool:. He has had no former training. We just worked together for a few hrs that day since he just got his permit. We also found out his mags will actually fit in his gun, backwards, but won't lock in. This happened to him on another drill we were practicing.

    Normally a newer shooter I would never do something like this, but he was progressing along well. I was really trying to trip him up, and the double feed I had set up, turned into a catastrophic failure. His Kel-tec PF9 was out of the fight, if it wasn't for his quick thinking he would not have survived. I was really proud of him. We both learned a lot that day.
     
  2. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    The above mentioned scenarios sound awesome. I need to do drills with you guys.
    & Very odd with the PF9. Never seen a round flip over like that.
    Side note, do you guys run rifles too?
     
  3. TapRackNGo

    TapRackNGo PNW Well-Known Member

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    Yes,, both. It was nothing formal, safety and moving at the speed that he was comfortable with. Really, I was expecting him to fail miserably because he was so new. And then we would talk about what he should have done. But, what happened was an excellent situation and probably couldn't be replicated. His carry gun failed, couldn't be fixed (in the moment) and he had to find something else to defend himself. That kind of training you rarely get to pay for.
     
  4. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    In my humble opinion, this is a clear demonstration of why a novice carrier should choose a revolver instead of a semi-auto for concealed carry. I've had a permit for 16 years now, and I still prefer my Ruger LCR over my Glock 26 in most situations.
     
  5. osterr1999

    osterr1999 Silverton, OR Active Member

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    If you really want to spice it up, try shooting at him with a paintball gun next time, so he can try doing it "under fire".
     
  6. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a new drill. The HK load!

    HK-AmmoBackwardsAd.jpg

    HK-AmmoBackwardsAd.jpg
     
  7. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    I've seen this happen on many guns. Not unusual at all with a double-feed scenario, particularly if the person being taught doesn't really understand how to clear jams. I've had it happen with snap caps many, many times in classes.

    Bottom line is teaching EFFECTIVE stoppage clearance. -Double feed is: 1: ID the malfunction 2:Strip Mag, 3:lock the slide back, 4:clear the jam, 5:re-insert a magazine, 6:drop the slide release and you're golden.

    Double-feeding is INCREDIBLY rare in the field with every gun I've ever owned. So the good news is that you are fantastically unlikely to encounter this malfunction in a gunfight. The bad news is that if it DOES happen to you, I hope you have a B/U gun, because otherwise you're going to be busy for a while as someone is shooting at you.

    ETA: There are very specific methods for clearing virtually every type of stoppage that hasn't broken the gun. The first step in ALL of them is identifying the stoppage type.

    Tap-Rack-Flip works for two kinds of malfunctions. It will result in exactly what you pictured with some others.
     
  8. TapRackNGo

    TapRackNGo PNW Well-Known Member

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    My biased thoughts, a revolver is great unless you are in a gunfight. Although, I have to admit, I don't own a revolver anymore. I do enjoy shooting them.
     
  9. RBid

    RBid Wilsonville, OR Well-Known Member

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    My time owning a PF-9 made me VERY quick at clearing fails. 204 failures to extract in 500 rounds fired. Tap-rack-bang turned into Tprkbg!!! That is the only firearm I have ever experienced a failure with.
     
  10. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    My P3-AT was a jam-o-matic as well...until it went *pop*, the firing pin shot out the back and wouldn't work anymore. Now (after Kel-Tec sent me a new slide) she runs like a champ!
     
  11. RBid

    RBid Wilsonville, OR Well-Known Member

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    When I emailed Kel Tec about the PF9, they sent me two extractors. Not the response I'd been looking for.

    Sincerely happy to hear that your P3AT is running!
     
  12. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    Now THAT is funny!
     
  13. ocarolan

    ocarolan Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    So... they sent a backup for the replacement extractor too? Apparently even Keltec mistrusts their part quality.
     
  14. robertg

    robertg Sandy Oregon Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    You should send it back to Kel Tec with the photo and let them go thru the gun.
    I bought one as my first carry gun and had some feeding problems with it. Then the firing pin fell out and I sent it back to them. Now it runs really smooth, but I upgraded my daily carry and only keep it for a back up.
     
  15. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Have had 2 keltecs,
    I got rid of them.
    I cannot carry a gun that I can not have confidence in.
    Now I carry a Rohrbaugh R9 and a Kimber Ultra Carry CT 45
    both 100% reliable to date.