Just sighted in my first red dot on a pistol TRS-25

bobschuckert · Sep 12, 2014

I have been shooting pistols of different calibers for the past 50 years. I am 61 and my favorite calibers are .22lr, .45 acp, 44 special, and 38/357. However, I have pretty much thinned the arsenal by giving guns to sons for their children but I have kept my trusted 44 (special) Blackhawk for up in the Colorado hills and streams, my 1953 - 2003 Single Six (mostly 22 WMR), and my brand New MKIII 22/45 Lite.

I have installed a hammer bushing (ABSOLUTELY love the mags flying out of the grip like my old 45s and 9mm handguns). The factory set up sucked (Along with the trigger). My next problem is the trigger and i will get the Volquartsen set to replace what the factory calls a trigger set.

I have a Silencerco SS Sparrow can screwed onto the muzzle and it will NEVER come off except to clean and store. This has transformed my 22 pistol shooting ALL - TO - GETHER. I can not believe it took me so long to try this technology in my sport shooting. Believe me, it was and is worth the $400+, the $200 penalty tax, and the 9 month wait.

I have very limited cash (for guns) these days and I had $80 saved up in my gun safe for any future purchases. I looked into the red dot market for handguns/pistols due to my eyesight leakage (where did it go?). I have had red dots on carbines in the past. I have a Leupold 1.5x4 Firedot scope on my carbine now and I love it. It is sort of like a red dot. I keep both eyes open but I have to concentrate on keeping the image with the crosshairs in it as my primary image in order to have the green dot at the actual point of impact of the bullet. Where as in a red dot (that is really close to parallax free) the red dot will be on the point of impact no matter which eye is the dominant eye.

I have always been a point / instinct shooter with any firearm. I only used a scope for long distance hunting/shooting. I was never what I would call a "bulls eye" shooter in competition shooting. But I was good enough to be noticed in defensive and combat shooting. I was good enough to place two in the heart and one in the head at 50 meters with .45s rapid fire and I could hit bulls eye point shooting off of "arms ready" position at 200 meters with M1A M14. I have always enjoyed the shooting sport.

But, now I feel that I could use some help with quickness in acquiring small, multiple targets with my MKIII. SO, I HEAVILY investigated the red dot options and (of course) wanted the MRDS/RMR/Deltapoint/Aimpoint/Firedot3 variety red dot. But what really caught my eye was the Bushnell TRS-25 optics. Why - you asked - because it consistently placed in the 4.5+ ratings with a majority in the 5 star rating. And,,,,, it was under $80.00 shipped. I was afraid that the tube design would appear as big as a brick in my sight picture. I was afraid of the size, height, and shape would be ugly on my pistol. I was really afraid of the proven adage "You get what you paid for" and the optics would not work (for me) like the reviews stated.

I am here to tell you that all my fears were laid to rest 50+- rounds later. My neighbor and i went out to my shooting club to sight in this little jewel. I started out at 10 yards. The pistol printed 6 inches down and 3 inches over to the right from bulls eye on a 5" shootNsee target. I got the shots to print close enough to bulls eye (by gradually moving elevation and windage controls after each ten round mag) to move out to 25 yards. I had to lower my group by 3 inches but my windage was dead on. My neighbor has as little experience as I do with red dot technology on a hand gun. When I put up a fresh ShootNsee target, we both were awestruck with the results. i aimed at the red bulls eye and hit it. I aimed at each number that runs across the target and either obliterated the number partially removed the number by the yellow hole. i then loaded my 5 mags and went to work on targets of opportunity (rocks, dirt clods, sticks) at various distances and I was more than impressed with the results.

I gave the pistol to my friend who has never fired a silenced firearm and I stood to the side to watch and look at the pistol (for aesthetics) while someone else shot and held it. I was equally pleased as to how the pistol looked in the shooter's hand. The optics are low, short, and NOT top heavy on the pistol. I do need to add that the extra length of the suppressor really adds to the balanced look. The "sex appeal" of this rig is in the top 10 count and the accuracy is superb. This rig holsters in a Black Dog holster with no rattle and a crisp snap when seated. The draw is clean and easy but the pistol is snug until drawn.

Since my experience has always been to concentrate on the target and not on the sights, I know that when I draw and aim the pistol (with iron sights) that the point of impact is at the 6 o-clock hold no matter what the distance. I trust this due to my past experiences. However, with a red dot on my pistol, i had a problem chasing the dot. I know that this is going to be overcome with practice (dry in the house and hot on the range). Our instincts are to shooting as the fire control system for missiles is to the pilot in the F-16 fighter. Twentyfour targets are tracked and assessed for threat while the first 12 are fired on and tracked while the next 12 are assessed. The pilot can either trust the technology (we think it would be foolish for him/her not to) or place the whole thing on manual and "think" their way through it. They might get the first target but they are nothing like what they could be. We as shooters try to think when we are shooting and thus disable our instinct technology built by God AND he knows we are pilots of a system that puts the F-16s to shame.

Olympic shooting coaches know (when they hook shooters up to brain activity scanners) that the more brain activity that is going on while shooting will ALWAYS increase the group size. You want to think before you draw or after the gun goes off but not during. Chasing the dot is "thinking." You will be sloppier and slower than a self-trained instinct shooter. The main problem in learning not to "think" is trusting your God given instinct ability. You are quite literally the F-16 fighter pilot putting the fire control system on manual - or turning it off cause you have always looked at the sights rather than the target. This is especially true in bulls eye shooting. It is just that many accomplished bulls eye shooters are now quick to acquire their target and will always impress a novice shooter. However, science in shooting has proven them to be slower to fire than an equally trained instinct shooter. Don't get me wrong, God bless our good shooters, police and military sharp shooters, and professional instructors. I run with instinct or point shooters and I am somewhat unschooled in bulls eye shooting. I freely admit there are many, many shooters in both schools that could eat my lunch and get me to thank them for doing so, in the shooting world. You are probably one of them.

The other problem is bringing the pistol up quickly with the red dot on the screen. many times I have to move the pistol around a little before the dot showed up. My observations are that I have to learn to "present" the pistol as if I were point shooting and the dot is showing near center. Practice will improve this I am sure. Sorry, I have never been trained nor have I competed professionally. I am self-taught and I do not know the "new speak" of the shooting business. So I will not use terms you pros use. The problem of not having the red dot on the screen is only at the draw. After the first shot, it is centered and when the target (large or small) is red - I pull the trigger and it has a hole in it or it flies from impact. I really look forward to going to a range, here in Colorado, where they have a .22 steel challenge. I will enter to enjoy the sport but I do not expect anything but fun to be accomplished. God, I do love this business!!! Now if I could just find a .22 round and it not be $1.00+- each.

Good Shooting !!!!

bob (with one "o")

bobschuckert · Sep 13, 2014

bobschuckert said:
I have been shooting pistols of different calibers for the past 50 years. I am 61 and my favorite calibers are .22lr, .45 acp, 44 special, and 38/357. However, I have pretty much thinned the arsenal by giving guns to sons for their children but I have kept my trusted 44 (special) Blackhawk for up in the Colorado hills and streams, my 1953 - 2003 Single Six (mostly 22 WMR), and my brand New MKIII 22/45 Lite.

I have installed a hammer bushing (ABSOLUTELY love the mags flying out of the grip like my old 45s and 9mm handguns). The factory set up sucked (Along with the trigger). My next problem is the trigger and i will get the Volquartsen set to replace what the factory calls a trigger set.

I have a Silencerco SS Sparrow can screwed onto the muzzle and it will NEVER come off except to clean and store. This has transformed my 22 pistol shooting ALL - TO - GETHER. I can not believe it took me so long to try this technology in my sport shooting. Believe me, it was and is worth the $400+, the $200 penalty tax, and the 9 month wait.

I have very limited cash (for guns) these days and I had $80 saved up in my gun safe for any future purchases. I looked into the red dot market for handguns/pistols due to my eyesight leakage (where did it go?). I have had red dots on carbines in the past. I have a Leupold 1.5x4 Firedot scope on my carbine now and I love it. It is sort of like a red dot. I keep both eyes open but I have to concentrate on keeping the image with the crosshairs in it as my primary image in order to have the green dot at the actual point of impact of the bullet. Where as in a red dot (that is really close to parallax free) the red dot will be on the point of impact no matter which eye is the dominant eye.

I have always been a point / instinct shooter with any firearm. I only used a scope for long distance hunting/shooting. I was never what I would call a "bulls eye" shooter in competition shooting. But I was good enough to be noticed in defensive and combat shooting. I was good enough to place two in the heart and one in the head at 50 meters with .45s rapid fire and I could hit bulls eye point shooting off of "arms ready" position at 200 meters with M1A M14. I have always enjoyed the shooting sport.

But, now I feel that I could use some help with quickness in acquiring small, multiple targets with my MKIII. SO, I HEAVILY investigated the red dot options and (of course) wanted the MRDS/RMR/Deltapoint/Aimpoint/Firedot3 variety red dot. But what really caught my eye was the Bushnell TRS-25 optics. Why - you asked - because it consistently placed in the 4.5+ ratings with a majority in the 5 star rating. And,,,,, it was under $80.00 shipped. I was afraid that the tube design would appear as big as a brick in my sight picture. I was afraid of the size, height, and shape would be ugly on my pistol. I was really afraid of the proven adage "You get what you paid for" and the optics would not work (for me) like the reviews stated.

I am here to tell you that all my fears were laid to rest 50+- rounds later. My neighbor and i went out to my shooting club to sight in this little jewel. I started out at 10 yards. The pistol printed 6 inches down and 3 inches over to the right from bulls eye on a 5" shootNsee target. I got the shots to print close enough to bulls eye (by gradually moving elevation and windage controls after each ten round mag) to move out to 25 yards. I had to lower my group by 3 inches but my windage was dead on. My neighbor has as little experience as I do with red dot technology on a hand gun. When I put up a fresh ShootNsee target, we both were awestruck with the results. i aimed at the red bulls eye and hit it. I aimed at each number that runs across the target and either obliterated the number partially removed the number by the yellow hole. i then loaded my 5 mags and went to work on targets of opportunity (rocks, dirt clods, sticks) at various distances and I was more than impressed with the results.

I gave the pistol to my friend who has never fired a silenced firearm and I stood to the side to watch and look at the pistol (for aesthetics) while someone else shot and held it. I was equally pleased as to how the pistol looked in the shooter's hand. The optics are low, short, and NOT top heavy on the pistol. I do need to add that the extra length of the suppressor really adds to the balanced look. The "sex appeal" of this rig is in the top 10 count and the accuracy is superb. This rig holsters in a Black Dog holster with no rattle and a crisp snap when seated. The draw is clean and easy but the pistol is snug until drawn.

Since my experience has always been to concentrate on the target and not on the sights, I know that when I draw and aim the pistol (with iron sights) that the point of impact is at the 6 o-clock hold no matter what the distance. I trust this due to my past experiences. However, with a red dot on my pistol, i had a problem chasing the dot. I know that this is going to be overcome with practice (dry in the house and hot on the range). Our instincts are to shooting as the fire control system for missiles is to the pilot in the F-16 fighter. Twentyfour targets are tracked and assessed for threat while the first 12 are fired on and tracked while the next 12 are assessed. The pilot can either trust the technology (we think it would be foolish for him/her not to) or place the whole thing on manual and "think" their way through it. They might get the first target but they are nothing like what they could be. We as shooters try to think when we are shooting and thus disable our instinct technology built by God AND he knows we are pilots of a system that puts the F-16s to shame.

Olympic shooting coaches know (when they hook shooters up to brain activity scanners) that the more brain activity that is going on while shooting will ALWAYS increase the group size. You want to think before you draw or after the gun goes off but not during. Chasing the dot is "thinking." You will be sloppier and slower than a self-trained instinct shooter. The main problem in learning not to "think" is trusting your God given instinct ability. You are quite literally the F-16 fighter pilot putting the fire control system on manual - or turning it off cause you have always looked at the sights rather than the target. This is especially true in bulls eye shooting. It is just that many accomplished bulls eye shooters are now quick to acquire their target and will always impress a novice shooter. However, science in shooting has proven them to be slower to fire than an equally trained instinct shooter. Don't get me wrong, God bless our good shooters, police and military sharp shooters, and professional instructors. I run with instinct or point shooters and I am somewhat unschooled in bulls eye shooting. I freely admit there are many, many shooters in both schools that could eat my lunch and get me to thank them for doing so, in the shooting world. You are probably one of them.

The other problem is bringing the pistol up quickly with the red dot on the screen. many times I have to move the pistol around a little before the dot showed up. My observations are that I have to learn to "present" the pistol as if I were point shooting and the dot is showing near center. Practice will improve this I am sure. Sorry, I have never been trained nor have I competed professionally. I am self-taught and I do not know the "new speak" of the shooting business. So I will not use terms you pros use. The problem of not having the red dot on the screen is only at the draw. After the first shot, it is centered and when the target (large or small) is red - I pull the trigger and it has a hole in it or it flies from impact. I really look forward to going to a range, here in Colorado, where they have a .22 steel challenge. I will enter to enjoy the sport but I do not expect anything but fun to be accomplished. God, I do love this business!!! Now if I could just find a .22 round and it not be $1.00+- each.

Good Shooting !!!!

bob (with one "o")

bobschuckert · Sep 13, 2014

Ya, the TRS-25 is all it is reported to be in the reviews.

A long time ago, I tried a Barska that sold for $65.00 and the red dot moved all over the place as my head moved. I kept this memory for red dots on a pistol. My eyesight was near perfect then and I felt that a red dot on a pistol was useless. I was also at the top of my game in instinct or point shooting. So, red dots were only on carbines.

The biggest difference with a red dot on a carbine or long gun is that I have a platform to rest my cheek and this is a constant. The red dot is always in the same place when I throw the carbine up to fire. It is completely different when I draw a pistol. The muscle memory, grip, and hold memory kicks in for point or instinct shooting. But now, I have more "stuff" coming up in front of my face; not just simple iron sights. I think, that I just need to go back to trusting my memories and the pistols mussel will be pointing in the right place with the red dot in center. I won't need to hunt for the dot. It is kind of frustrating at first, but so was learning to point shoot a pistol when I started in my teens. I wonder if a laser grip would speed up the process? Anyone got $350.00 they want to part with (ha).

I used a laser with a barrel clamp on my Grandfather's S&W model 10 when I first started. I thought it would help me develop my pointing when I simulated drawing. I would come up from the draw (learning to cock the pistol (pistol was not loaded) as the gun was rising from my hip and learning to keep my finger off the trigger). I would point the pistol at the object and when I felt that I was on target, I activated the laser to see how far I was off. I would then adjust my hold and reactivate the laser. A couple of batteries later, I was dead on (from across the room) coming up from the draw.

I then loaded up a bunch of those plastic bullets and cases with primers, made up a box target, opened windows, and started drawing for real. A couple of discharges with the black plastic bullets (much like an empty shot shell reload bullet) hitting the floor or brushing my leg or foot taught me to keep my finger off the stupid trigger on the draw. My muscle, grip, and hold memory held up and I was, at least, in the small box. All I needed to do was work on Technique and speed. I forgot to state that I came up to the point using a two handed hold. I was not shooting from the hip.

I am now practicing (shooting from the hip) with my single six 22lr and applying this to my drawing my 44 special Lipsey Blackhawk. I can hit a clay pigeon off the draw at approx 12-18 feet. But, I think I would go to the old, tried and true two hand hold if I needed to defend myself against bear, mountain lion, a really large, angry trout, or an angry fly fisherman (I use a lite weight spinner rig with a bullet bobber and 6 foot 3x leader with a fly).

I get snubbed when I am out on the rivers, streams, or high mountain lakes here cause a "real" trout fisherman uses a $600 fly rod, wears a pair of $300 waders, with (very expensive) felt soled water boots, and catches a trout every three hundred casts. Here I am with my $30 Walmart chest waders (w/beer can holder option - I spare no expense), oversized, velcroed, Walmart special tennis shoes ($12.00), and my pistol in a shoulder harness, fishing vest complete with all the gear to last a week in the wild, tethered fishing net (sawed off aluminum handled - duck taped grip, green nylon, large mesh, 5 gallon sized fishing net), and tethered floating basket (keeps the beer cold). And, I am catching a lot more fish, having a lot more fun, and I don't have to fight the wind or surrounding foliage.

They claim the yellow bobber throws the trout off the strike. Well, bubba, tell that to the second dozen trout I catch while you and your $600 long A@% pole are catching your third fish (hence the 44 in a shoulder rig). It might be that I soak my flies in south Alabama hooch over night. When I can no longer see the rainbow residue floating away from the fly - I change the fly. Hey, the fish are partaaaying. Ya, I'm a RED NECK who believes in God, guts, guns, (common sense, marriage, kids and Grandkids showing respect along with their self-absurdness (assuredness - sorry), instincts, good fellowship, that there is a lot for me to learn, and that I am trainable (just ask my wife).Of course, a big ugly stick helps.

Happy Trails, bob