Just in, new mass shooting in another school today, 14 possibly dead 2 children confirmed dead... :(

[2506]

I've been a Reagan fan since before I was able to vote and as great of a president as he was he didn't do this country any favors on the mental health issues by releasing all the nuts. That is beside the point, I blame school shooting deaths on the fact that they remain soft targets with zero clue on how to secure their environment. The disgusting part is many, many people have offered their expertise on the the subject how to correct the situation only to be blown off.

Uvalde had an active shooter plan. They fortified the school. They had 5 cops on the payroll. They spend 40% of their budget on cops. None of this stopped the shooter.

 

[40Garand]

That's not really how any of this works. Any part of the Constitution can be amended. The Bill of Rights are amendments. Even amendments can be amended, refer to the 18th and 21st.
Our Government is supposed to be of, by, and for twe the people. If enough people want to amend any part of the Constitution, it gets amended.

"As we know all too well, mass shootings are shockingly common in the United States, and after each, we see a few recurring themes. One of the most prominent is that any tragedy involving firearms triggers a reflexive call to repeal the Second Amendment, with people asking, "Why don't we just get rid of it?" In theory, we know exactly how to amend the Constitution—after all, the instructions are right there in Article V. But practically speaking, it's very hard to do."

 

[titsonritz]

Uvalde had an active shooter plan. They fortified the school. They had 5 cops on the payroll. They spend 40% of their budget on cops. None of this stopped the shooter.

Then how did the shooter waltz through the back door? I call B.S on their "active shooter plan". You do not have a hardened target with 4' high fences and unlocked doors. PERIOD.

 

[40Garand]

Then how did the shooter waltz through the back door? I call B.S on their "active shooter plan".

He posted prior on social media. Why wasn't the school locked down?

 

[SonicBlue03]

I was asked about "what can we do" by a co-worker that's generally neutral to these types of things. Here was my reply:

The root cause of these violent acts is a much deeper, much more complex set of issues that we can't address through reactive means.

1. Fix NICS, and fund local LEO/mental health to properly use the system and flow information to the Feds. Then the Feds can more effectively deny purchases and also dispatch LEOs for follow-up interviews.
2. Secure school properties. Buzz-in front door, better cameras. Airlocks for people working their way into a building.
3. Armed security for all schools. Not fat slobs or Barneys. Legit, "oh $hit that's an authority figure" security. Plenty of former vets that need jobs.
4. Real school counselors or a more robust healthcare access within schools.
   
   The problems that we all have to live with - especially with two mass-casualty events so close together - is that the momentum and the REEE REEE REEEEE'ing obscures any conversation about remediation and also how to get to root. It's unfortunate.

 

[titsonritz]

He posted prior on social media. Why wasn't the school locked down?

Only minutes prior.

 

[VanceInWA]

There is merit to the continued focus on police, arming teachers, perimeter security, etc. But those are not solutions that get to the heart of the problem: parenting failure. Physical and school-system solutions just won't cut it. If someone has a recurring problem driving a car, consistently getting in accidents, is the solution to give them a more secure car with better air bags, to re-engineer the roads? Those can help to some extent, but the real solution is to improve the driver through training. All the physical and school-system suggestions can bring some benefits, but until a genuine focus is brought down on parents, forcing them to do better in this country, no real solution will be achieved.

 

[coop44]

Some one saw his rants online and did nothing, called nobody.
As nosy as folks are in a small town, some one heard the earlier shooting of his grandmother, and did nothing.
A neighbor or some body saw him loading up guns and ammo in his mothers truck. Did nothing. (Not hunting season)
How the heck did an 18 yo afford 2 AR's and a pile of ammo working fast food? I guess living with relatives has advantages.
Kind of leaning towards favoring red flag laws now, or raising the age to purchase to 21 or even higher, like 25. Brains are not fully developed until around 25 (it's science look it up).

On the earlier incidents, New York in particular. I blame the legal system, people who have no business being on the street after MANY arrests and convictions commit shootings with illegally obtained firearms. What happened to three strike laws? Prosecutors and judges should be held accountable for cutting deals.

Just my two cents.

 

[308]

There are 10 clear rules which were summed up by The Author in 2 clear rules which, if followed by everyone as much as it is within them to do so, would most likely put an end to all of this. And it truly IS an answer to the problem. However, forum rules state that we cannot discuss the subject. Sad.

 

[titsonritz]

More sad news out of Uvalde, poor guy literally died of a broken heart...

Husband of teacher killed in Texas school shooting dies from heart attack.

 

[3MTA3]

Holy f***

https://twitter.com/x/status/1529588182777532419

 

[titsonritz]

Holy f***

https://twitter.com/x/status/1529588182777532419

Yeah, I saw that last night on Hannity. Close call.

 

[Bam]

Republicans have their own faults, made their own bad decisions, but it is hard not to despise democrats when they are do nothing evil Schumer blocks Republicans' school safety bill days after mass shooting Our way, is the only way bull crap.

We don't live in a utopia, schools need onsite armed security. Someone needs to be sitting there watching cameras, access points, and be ready to respond. If security sees someone suspicious, they can lock down the school, alert staff, close and lock class room doors until they can verify the person. But no, we rather put up signs and make our schools magical bad guy friendly zones.

 

[Member 3687]

That's not really how any of this works. Any part of the Constitution can be amended. The Bill of Rights are amendments. Even amendments can be amended, refer to the 18th and 21st.
Our Government is supposed to be of, by, and for twe the people. If enough people want to amend any part of the Constitution, it gets amended.

You are correct the constitution can and has been change but there is a process and it has to be voted on by the states or their representatives and not a sitting president by executive orders.

It also cannot be changed by making laws that alter its meaning that has been done in the past or as many want to happen.

The people have the final say you are correct but the people have the right to fight a tyrannical government that tries to bypass the constitutional process to shove their will through.

So, if folks do not like the 2A get 2/3s of the states to call a convention and change it its that simple.

 

[Bobbygun]

I'm seeing some backtracking now - that he wasn't engaged by the school cops before entering.

 

[Yarome]

As more info is coming out there is certainly going to be some very hard questions for their LE offices and school district to answer for.

1. He was never confronted by anyone from the crash site to his entry into the school.
2. The door was unlocked and no armed school police/security guard was on site.
3. The vehicle crash and a man firing on people was reported to 911 10min before he walked into the school.
4. "Barricaded"?? Officers attempting to gain entry where fired on so... it wasn't that they where somehow physically prevented from entry or that he was "barricaded" within the classroom. I call "word play".

It begs to question why was the school not put on locked down within those 10min after a gunman was reported within walking distance of the school?

Why was there no armed security... or... "any" security to challenge his entry?
Why was the door unlocked in the first place (as was policy during a school day)?

I guess you can't expect a couple of LEO's with bullet proof vests on to risk their personal lives when small children are being murdered, shot and bleeding out, but... really??

Why did it take over an hour to properly equip LE personnel so that entry was less of a risk and ultimately successful?

While the majority of the shooting was within the first minutes, there was additional gunfire during that hour, which to most folks, would indicate he was continuing to murder children. You would "think" that might put a little more pressure on LE's timetable to respond (?)

Tough questions to answer for sure.

Unrelated, but I've noticed it brought up in this thread, so... I'm still one to agree that all willing school personnel should be allowed to be vetted, receive free training and permitted to carry on school grounds. The key being "willing", not "required".

The Texas school district in question in the shooting prohibits any person to carry on school grounds. FAIL!

 

[Bobbygun]

Tough questions to answer for sure.

Right now it looks like "the fog of war". Details will be sufficiently vague as to be non-specific. In the end, we'll get "mistakes were made", but not who or how.

Okay, so I'm feeling a little cynical this afternoon.

 

[Koda]

"Meanwhile, frustrated and distraught parents and other adults outside the school clashed with law enforcement officers, urging the officers to go inside and get the gunman or to let them go inside themselves, video posted to social media appears to show."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/26/us/uvalde-texas-elementary-school-shooting-thursday/index.html

 

[titsonritz]

4. "Barricaded"?? Officers attempting to gain entry where fired on so... it wasn't that they where somehow physically prevented from entry or that he was "barricaded" within the classroom. I call "word play".

In this case "Barricaded" means he lock himself inside the class and LE was unable to break down the door. The type of doors typically used in school construction are metal frame and door, you can not just kick one down, even shotgun breach loads can be inadequate.

The biggest factors are the door's shape, structure, and directional movement; these all equate to if a shotgun will be an adequate tool for a hard breach. Ideally all these aspects of the door and building should be determined prior to an assault or raid occurs but may need to be determined upon approach of the target building or point of entry. Situation dictates, so that kind of intel may not be available to everyone. For article's sake, I will be describing the procedure from the perspective that breach information is acquired on approach to the breach-point. If the door is composed of a material that is destructible under a shotguns use, proceed. If the door is made of reinforced steel or something to that extent, an alternative breaching method should be used.

How to breach a door using a shotgun

It is my understanding LE had to use a staff members key to gain entry.

 

[Ura-Ki]

"As we know all too well, mass shootings are shockingly common in the United States, and after each, we see a few recurring themes. One of the most prominent is that any tragedy involving firearms triggers a reflexive call to repeal the Second Amendment, with people asking, "Why don't we just get rid of it?" In theory, we know exactly how to amend the Constitution—after all, the instructions are right there in Article V. But practically speaking, it's very hard to do."

Yes, it's very very hard to accomplish, that was done specifically to allow the largest majority to then convince 34 states to hold a convention of states, to then decide what to change, and then vote on before sending it on to Congress AND SCOTUS for review before a final amendment moves forth! That has only happened ONCE since the beginning, and will likely NOT happen again with the 2nd!
These incessant side steps and challenges, plus the SCOTUS unwillingness to take up a case has left us where we are now, with the 2nd relegated to secondary status, and a distasteful subject to be avoided at all costs! What's worse is the SCOTUS has rarely upheld the 2nd rights as written, choosing instead to set a very narrow view of the topic, or siding with the restriction because of the false belief that it's "Good for Us" mentality!