Just in, new mass shooting in another school today, 14 possibly dead 2 children confirmed dead... :(

[mhayd93]

Its purpose literally is to allow citizens to be well armed for the sake of fighting both domestic and international threats. Well-regulated=adequately stocked, functioning properly, well-equipped.

A major purpose of this forum is to support the 2nd Amendment and fight against the attempts to destroy it. Yet here you are, supporting major restrictions against it…

Edit to add: Regarding your first point, if guns were the issue, the United States would be an absolute war zone every day. If guns were the issue, myself and everyone else on this forum would be mass murderers. How come our guns don't kill?

 

[EHJ]

Commentary: Change the Bill of Rights? Don't be so sure

Editor's note: The Bill of Rights turns 230 years old Wednesday.

www.postandcourier.com

 

[tac]

That really sucks. Damn.

Are you not allowed some how to post from the UK about such things...?

Uh, no. What makes you think that? It was on ALL our TV news and in our newspapers before any US coverage. I can't re-post CNN videos because of international licensing restrictions - it happens a lot with US stuff.

BTW, BBC news has coverage of the CoP admitting that he was wrong not to send his officers into the school in a timely manner. Sure, the killer was 'contained' in a classroom, but the classroom was full of kids - kids that he was then free to slaughter at will.

 

[EHJ]

edit

 

[shoengine]

Its purpose literally is to allow citizens to be well armed for the sake of fighting both domestic and international threats. Well-regulated=adequately stocked, functioning properly, well-equipped.

A major purpose of this forum is to support the 2nd Amendment and fight against the attempts to destroy it. Yet here you are, supporting major restrictions against it…

Edit to add: Regarding your first point, if guns were the issue, the United States would be an absolute war zone every day. If guns were the issue, myself and everyone else on this forum would be mass murderers. How come our guns don't kill?

I don't know about that. My guns hang out in some seedy places at night. I've talked to them a dozen times: they just sit there with a blank expression. I don't think they are listening to me.

I gotta remove the door handle on the inside of my safe before someone gets hurt.

 

[SonicBlue03]

PREFACE: Karen rant

Quick side point:
"I own guns so I can speak to this with authority" is the "black friend" defense. Seriously, don't lead with that. It's weak.

Re: mass casualty events by firearm: 330M people in our country, about that number of guns (or more) and millions of AR-platform rifles account for 300 deaths a year on average. Let's put some perspective into the platform itself. Double the number die from fists/feet. You don't need to take my word on it. Go look at the uniform data on the FBI's site.

Why does the U.S. have more mass casualty events? Can be a lot of factors; so far the rhetoric is on symptoms, not the problems. One of the major differences is that we lack the uniform healthcare support that many other countries have that are similarly industrialized. We also have, on average, a higher amount of broken homes. Symptoms of the problem. We would need to agree on the problem statement, and that's the biggest hump to get people over. You claim the data would show it - it would if it was truly collected. We can't collect it effectively because we don't have an effective system in place to accurately collect it. Garbage in/garbage out. But the eye test tells reasonable people that we have an increasing mental health crisis in the U.S.

Re: BoR - you're correct, the Amendments were an adjustment to the Declaration of Independence. Look a bit in the history books and you'll recall that the British empire tried to force citizens back under rule by attempting to confiscate their weapons. Cue revolutionary war. Cue the BoR, the first "government can't tell us what we can say," followed by, "and our guns will make sure the government doesn't force us into subjugation." Again, history is a thing. This was a, "now that we won, we need to document that $#!t."

Driving vs. firearm ownership. Driving isn't an enumerated right. Defense against govt is. See above "history is a thing" comment.

It's arguable the the Founders would actually see military weapons in the hands of citizenry, because of what drove the 2nd. And, at the time of the BoR, citizens could own the same weapons used in warfare. In fact many of them did.

You are seemingly leaning into the idea that "AR-platforms didn't exist then, so the rules aren't the same." Tut tut, be careful going down that rabbit hole. Social media, email, texting, and live streaming didn't exist then either. Does 1A apply less because of the technology? No. And if you take time to read some of the thought process in the Founders, they account for that.

At the end of the day, the US is uniquely different than so many other nations that the comparisons don't work and skew the conversation. The focus should be: how do we accurately identify the problem that we can agree on, and how do we go about solving is vs. treating symptoms?

I suspect one of the more aggressive mods will likely lock this thread now. I hope not, I don't think even your post pushes us into close mode. The schoolyard insults say more about you than anyone else. It also diminishes your ability to be seen as a reasonable adult trying to have a conversation. I would welcome an articulate conversation. My perspective is that if you disengage from hyperbole and emotional, there's a conversation we can have here.

 

[tigertodd78]

Being condescending is to get your attention with or without it, the net result is the same.
Keep your hands off my guns!
Btw 2a scholars…. This was written as a result of citizens fighting against an oppressive government, Britain. So the mindset back then was a well regulated militia is the only way to be free against a federal standing army, domestic or abroad (because everyone had the same weaponry). Again the 2a primary justification was to prevent the United States from needing a standing army and the last time I checked that went out the window along time ago. Hell the national Guard was supposed to be a citizens militia how did that work out? The people lost, we are ruled by our military and militarized police. We don't have access to anything close to the same weaponry.
The 2a main design and purpose is outdated and as irrelevant as ball and musket rifles.
The end.

 

[EHJ]

Being condescending is to get your attention with or without it, the net result is the same.
Keep your hands off my guns!
Btw 2a scholars…. This was written as a result of citizens fighting against an oppressive government, Britain. So the mindset back then was a well regulated militia is the only way to be free against a federal standing army, domestic or abroad. Again the 2a primary justification was to prevent the United States from needing a standing army and the last time I checked that went out the window along time ago. bubblegum the national Guard was supposed to be a citizens militia how did that work out?
The 2a main purpose is outdated and as irrelevant as ball and musket rifles.
The end.

You are the reason and necessity for the Second Amendment.

Vichy France - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[tigertodd78]

You are the reason and necessity for the Second Amendment.

Vichy France - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You are right. I myself am an oppressive country trying to invade America. Got it.

 

[VanceInWA]

"The NRA used to be about father and son/daughter going out into the wilderness to hunt."

Might want to recheck the history of the NRA. The NRA started after the Civil War in response to dismal marksmanship experienced by Union soldiers (estimates were 1,000 rounds shot for every Confederate killed). It has its roots in marksmanship training. Its purposes and influences have expanded greatly since then, into all kinds of endeavors including support for hunters, but let's not be delusional that the foundation of the NRA was some kind of "father and son/daughter" organization for hunting purposes. That's a falsehood and wrong to leave that impression with NWFA members.

 

[EHJ]

You are right. I myself am an oppressive country trying to invade America. Got it.

 

[titsonritz]

Uvalde, Texas school shooting: Off-duty CBP agent saves students, daughter after 'help' text from teacher wife

This dude is stud...goes from getting a hair cut, gets a "HELP" from his wife, borrows barber's shotgun, blows past local LE standing in place and smokes the perp. Take note boys this is how it is done, those standing around need to be fired and ostracized from LE.

 

[slimmer13]

Uvalde, Texas school shooting: Off-duty CBP agent saves students, daughter after 'help' text from teacher wife

This dude is stud...goes from getting a hair cut, gets a "HELP" from his wife, borrows barber's shotgun, blows past local LE standing in place and smokes the perp. Take note boys this is how it is done, those standing around need to be fired and ostracized from LE.

I think a separate BP tactical team killed the scumbag.

 

[nammac]

CBS radio news is reporting more than 58 magazines were found…

I'll go out on a limb and make an assumption they were AR mags and that they were all 30 round mags…. Even the cheap ones, are coming out at around $600 (round numbers). That would be some 1,740 rounds of ammo, again assuming .223/5.56, we're talking around $1,200…. So we're talking $2K in addition to the cost of the Daniel Defense rifle…

How does part time work at Wendy's make that kind of spending possible? I can't wrap my mind around it…

 

[slimmer13]

I like to bring a bit of comedy into such a laughable and pathetic thread. Fact is I get along with everyone, but I'm tired. I'm completely done with this insecure macho gun fetish at the determent of its people. You guys value violent metal more than human life, I think differently. I am a pragmatic, empathic and a realistic American. I don't want our citizens to be mutilated by such a serious weapons so easily obtained. It's simple.

I think you're missing alot of nuance and may be overestimating the grasp that you think you have on the situation.

 

[titsonritz]

CBS radio news is reporting more than 58 magazines were found…

I'll go out on a limb and make an assumption they were AR mags and that they were all 30 round mags…. Even the cheap ones, are coming out at around $600 (round numbers). That would be some 1,740 rounds of ammo, again assuming .223/5.56, we're talking around $1,200…. So we're talking $2K in addition to the cost of the Daniel Defense rifle…

How does part time work at Wendy's make that kind of spending possible? I can't wrap my mind around it…

I've wondering the same thing.

 

[SonicBlue03]

Being condescending is to get your attention with or without it, the net result is the same.
Keep your hands off my guns!
Btw 2a scholars…. This was written as a result of citizens fighting against an oppressive government, Britain. So the mindset back then was a well regulated militia is the only way to be free against a federal standing army, domestic or abroad (because everyone had the same weaponry). Again the 2a primary justification was to prevent the United States from needing a standing army and the last time I checked that went out the window along time ago. Hell the national Guard was supposed to be a citizens militia how did that work out? The people lost, we are ruled by our military and militarized police. We don't have access to anything close to the same weaponry.
The 2a main design and purpose is outdated and as irrelevant as ball and musket rifles.
The end.

I don't need condescension to get my attention. I require merely an open, well-put-forth argument for discussion. To take the former path is the rout a c**t takes. For future reference if you choose to engage.

We disagree that the need went out the window. In fact from my perspective it's far more relevant now than any other point in time in our history since the Civil War. We have seen naked government overreach into rights after 9/11 thanks to the ineptness of Bush, and they continue to push the boundaries as elastic until, at some point, it breaks.

Militarily we aren't ruled, and I disagree also with that premise. An armed and dangerous populace can very easily seismically disrupt the government's ability to govern, even with military support. Our infrastructure is ridiculously fragile and if the current administration truly puts money into necessary projects, it will take far more than the 1.2T that was passed. Plus our military and leadership has not shown to be a dominant force for a long term occupation. See: Iraq phase 2. Vietnam. Syria. Afghanistan. Libya. We have failed objectives far more than we've succeeded on. That's a leadership failure.

So we disagree that the Constitution is outdated.

 

[SonicBlue03]

CBS radio news is reporting more than 58 magazines were found…

I'll go out on a limb and make an assumption they were AR mags and that they were all 30 round mags…. Even the cheap ones, are coming out at around $600 (round numbers). That would be some 1,740 rounds of ammo, again assuming .223/5.56, we're talking around $1,200…. So we're talking $2K in addition to the cost of the Daniel Defense rifle…

How does part time work at Wendy's make that kind of spending possible? I can't wrap my mind around it…

Living with his grandparents, his grandpa a convicted felon (allegedly) and a mom with a drug problem (acknowledged, although not detailed.)

Even if he had Magpuls, that's still, what, $12 a mag? I'm not claiming conspiracy, but I really want to know where this money came from and if there were people chipping in hold those people accountable as accessories.

 

[EHJ]

This just settled recently - The Sandy Hook lawsuit against Remington...

The $73 Million Settlement Against Gun Manufacturer Remington is Backdoor Gun Control | SGT Report

www.sgtreport.com

If there was ever a time you thought about getting that DD dream rifle, I'd do it now...
Even if not to just to show support for the sh!tstorm they are about to go through.

 

[titsonritz]

FIFY!!

Nailed that one.

When someone starts off portraying themselves as the "only pragmatic voice of reason in here", you pretty much know the deal.