Ura-Ki

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"As we know all too well, mass shootings are shockingly common in the United States, and after each, we see a few recurring themes. One of the most prominent is that any tragedy involving firearms triggers a reflexive call to repeal the Second Amendment, with people asking, “Why don’t we just get rid of it?” In theory, we know exactly how to amend the Constitution—after all, the instructions are right there in Article V. But practically speaking, it’s very hard to do."
Yes, it's very very hard to accomplish, that was done specifically to allow the largest majority to then convince 34 states to hold a convention of states, to then decide what to change, and then vote on before sending it on to Congress AND SCOTUS for review before a final amendment moves forth! That has only happened ONCE since the beginning, and will likely NOT happen again with the 2nd!
These incessant side steps and challenges, plus the SCOTUS unwillingness to take up a case has left us where we are now, with the 2nd relegated to secondary status, and a distasteful subject to be avoided at all costs! What's worse is the SCOTUS has rarely upheld the 2nd rights as written, choosing instead to set a very narrow view of the topic, or siding with the restriction because of the false belief that it's "Good for Us" mentality!
 
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In this case "Barricaded" means he lock himself inside the class and LE was unable to break down the door.
Noted.
It is my understanding LE had to use a staff members key to gain entry.
Using a key to unlock a door, to me, does not constitue a "barricade" that denies reasonable access. I call it... a "door" with easy access by any number of readily availalble keys and number of personnel.

I don't know though. Maybe there where cabinets or desks in the classroom he used to reinforce the door and deny entry, but wasn't mentioned once entry was finally gained. An ommission of facts is possible at this point.
 

Ura-Ki

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In this case "Barricaded" means he lock himself inside the class and LE was unable to break down the door. The type of doors typically used in school construction are metal frame and door, you can not just kick one down, even shotgun breach loads can be inadequate.

The biggest factors are the door’s shape, structure, and directional movement; these all equate to if a shotgun will be an adequate tool for a hard breach. Ideally all these aspects of the door and building should be determined prior to an assault or raid occurs but may need to be determined upon approach of the target building or point of entry. Situation dictates, so that kind of intel may not be available to everyone. For article’s sake, I will be describing the procedure from the perspective that breach information is acquired on approach to the breach-point. If the door is composed of a material that is destructible under a shotguns use, proceed. If the door is made of reinforced steel or something to that extent, an alternative breaching method should be used.

How to breach a door using a shotgun

It is my understanding LE had to use a staff members key to gain entry.
This was a lack of training and equipement!
As a former door kick in a past life, I had tons of training and experience in breaching hardened doorways, windows and even armored structures! It's not all that hard if you know what to do and have the equipement to do it!

All doors sold commercially have roughly the same hinge spacing/location, as well as established lock locations and depth of engagement, same with the hardened door frames, knowing that tells you where to place charges and/or breaching rounds from your shotgun or high powered rifle!

If I had been there, I would have been able to breach in seconds with my 7.62x51 rifle, and been able to take out the shooter, or cover for another team member to engage the tango!
Remember, hardened dose not mean armored! For armored, that takes chemical or shaped charges to breach, or a serious kinetic hit, some times that can be done with a high power rifle shooting AP ammo, some times it takes other kinetics! Your average armored car can be breached pretty easy, almost all have external hinges, none are hardened for that kind of ballistics, they can stop a .50BMG to the main body, but a 5.56 through the gun port and then slugs or a high power rifle round to the hinges gets it done, only the "High Value" hardened armored cars like you see in Vegas are truly difficult to breach, but with the right tools not impossible!
 

nwslopoke

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Truth is as much lip service and money 💰 spent on talk, children aren't the priority politicians say they are. Great for photos and big budgets but not so much on spending actual dollars on.

Any objections and I'll be forced to mention all the teachers crying about the crayons and glue they have to buy with their own money.

As far as security. The Pulse nightclub, Florida HS and other places have had police stack outside while carnage happens real time inside. Latest info the Sheriff wouldn't say if there was a police or dedicated school cop on the scene. It doesn't matter because either way it failed.

Spend the money. The politicians piggy bank they use for everything else. I know an 8 yo that can design a safer set up than what we use. If they care it should be the #1 jobs created for skilled and unskilled labor across the country. Teachers too educated to add protection skills along with finger painting can hit the bricks. Bye. Save those tears for the employment line.
 
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So the kid used a Daniel Defense rifle. That's interesting. Not exactly a cheap rifle. Not the most expensive, but a Ruger or Bushmaster generally fall into the tools of The Poors, and Daniel Defense decidedly does not. So either this kid was saving up for a while with intent, or he has some really stupid parents giving him money when he asks.
 
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You can't just walk into an apartment complex in the South Waterfront without being buzzed in. I refuse to believe a nation with so many bright people can't figure out how to secure a school building. The Federal Gov't just got done disbursing $800 billion in PPP "loans". Find the money, cut the red tape and get this done already. If whackos were targeting private schools they would have the facility secured by Friday.
 
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So the kid used a Daniel Defense rifle. That's interesting. Not exactly a cheap rifle. Not the most expensive, but a Ruger or Bushmaster generally fall into the tools of The Poors, and Daniel Defense decidedly does not. So either this kid was saving up for a while with intent, or he has some really stupid parents giving him money when he asks.
Or he was on Onlyfans.
 
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“The bottom line is law enforcement was there,” McCraw said. “They did engage immediately. They did contain (Ramos) in the classroom.”

That's great. Contained in a classroom full of children. More proof that we truly are on our own when it comes to self defense.

-E-
They engaged and contained alright, but didn't neutralize the threat for over an hour. 20 lives were sacrificed in order to "contain" the shooter yet they are somehow proud of their response time in locking the fox in the hen house.

As we found out, whether he used an AR-15 or not is irrelevant. An hour was more than long enough for this sicko to kill 20 people. In fact that would have been more than long enough for this sicko to kill 20 captive people with a muzzle loader or even a knife. So when the peanut gallery starts spouting off about how the 2nd Amendment only applied to muzzle loaders or hunting rifles, or how the AR is too deadly because it can be reloaded quickly, they need to take their righteous indignation and stow it in their aft compartment. This shooter was given all the time and opportunity in the world to commit mass murder and, given the situation, he could have done it with a dull rock and a hammer. 20 innocent lives were taken, not by a weapon that's easy to vilify, but by time and inaction.
 
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po18guy

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Prolly old news, but the kid has been going bad for awhile, cut his face and was shooting people with a bb gun - no one reported him.


And THERE is the solution. In each and every case of mass killing, the murderer gave warnings to friends and on social media that something was up. They were ignored. If even one aspect of this tragedy was lacking, it would never have occurred.
 
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do you not remember Kip Kinkel?
a home grown Oregonian
he shot his grandparents also before shooting up the school
Um, not trying to be a smart-a$$, but 1998 is "the old days" to you?

Let's go back a little further, to the day you could order rifles through the mail and the postman would deliver them to your front door.

When I could go into the Western Auto store at the age of 11 or 12 and buy a bunch of ammo, rifle and handgun, for Dad, no questions asked.

When we could go into any store in the state and buy rifles and handguns, walk out with them in ten minutes with no background checks.

When I, as a 12-year-old, could wander around in suburban Detroit with a pack of other kids my age, all of us carrying our .22 rifles -- no SWAT call-out, no TV news helicopters...

When we kept our shotguns or deer rifles in the racks in our cars and pick-ups during bird or deer seasons -- in the high parking lot -- in the hopes of doing a little hunting after 7th period before it got dark.
 
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Personally, I still wonder why there is no initiative to train and arm all school teachers and personnel. If I'm going to entrust my child into their care I certainly don't mind them being vetted, trained and packing. Just sayin....
Hickok45 was a teacher until he retired, and in his classroom he kept.....a baseball bat, because of the regulations.
 

po18guy

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Why are so many people losing hope and deciding to murder? Our society is overrun with murderers. Decades of GTA prepped them for but one example. Sooner or later, to the marginal personality, video killing just doesn't do it anymore.
 
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Will_White

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Why are so many people losing hope and deciding to murder? Our society is overrun with murderers. Decades of GTA prepped them for but one example. Sooner or later, to the marginal personality, video killing just doesn't do it anymore.
Baby Boomers GIF by MOODMAN
 
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Why are so many people losing hope and deciding to murder? Our society is overrun with murderers. Decades of GTA prep them for but one example. Sooner or later, to the marginal personality, video killing just doesn't do it anymore.
4H9rk8P.png

Video games have nothing to do with it. For example, Charles Whitman, the University of Texas tower shooter. Or James Huberty, the San Ysidro McDoanld's massacre. Or George Hennard, Luby's Cafeteria shooting.

Evil people have existed for centuries. Their tools of destruction have only changed over time.
 

nehalemguy

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We don't live in a utopia, schools need onsite armed security. Someone needs to be sitting there watching cameras, access points, and be ready to respond. If security sees someone suspicious, they can lock down the school, alert staff, close and lock class room doors until they can verify the person. But no, we rather put up signs and make our schools magical bad guy friendly zones.
The Vernonia K-12 school had a SRO that was paid 50/50 by the Vernonia Police Department and the School District. Our now former woke school superintendent quietly eliminated that position at the height of the BLM/defund the police mania with no real explanation to the school board or the community .

We now have a new superintendent starting July 1 who will hopefully revive the SRO position in the school.

-E-
 

Ura-Ki

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So the very real and local impact here is that this will probably breathe life into those garbage initiatives by the fake clergy.
Not likely!
The bigger question should be, what will Kween K8 spend all that 2.5 Billion surplus on? More "Art" or orange traffic cones? How bout we take half that and spend it to harden the schools and the other half to help the mentally ill and homeless!
When I took part in the school security program for PPS, they had a 11 million budget to harden the largest and most challenging of schools with in their district, money well spent, and a serious template for how you should do it right and tight!


Naw, K8 will blow it all on new carpet and drapes, and gilding the lilly, plus giving the rest to the Dems to fund their pet projects, like building new dug out canoes for the states indigenous peoples!
 
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I kind of got the feeling the other day that the timeline of events leading up to the shooting would be ever evolving or amending itself do to sensationalism. Like the MGM shooting in Vegas, most likely we won't ever know the truth.
We will, but history tells us some will likely chose to believe the reporting from an earlier moment in time
 

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