Just had my first turn-down for a class (Prohibited Person) what to advise?

[Skier]

If someone had a felony conviction like 15 years ago in another state, but worked to get it expunged in that state, I think they'd pass a background check, but as someone mentioned above, there's still the "federal" issue. What are the concerns at the federal level and is there anyway to fix that? I know someone in a situation like that, great guy, family man, helps lots of other people as a living these days, etc, but it seems that his 2A rights might be permanently out of reach for him because of the federal issue, which I don't understand entirely, so any input/suggestions on that? Anything he can do?

 

[pdx210]

No sympathy here


He has a felony conviction and he knows it ..and he's in your class? So he's an idiot that doesn't understand or disregards the law and his legal standing.
There are procedures to get them back but that isn't in your class ...again the idiot stamp applies here!

 

[BoonDocks36]

I can understand both sides of this coin.

The bottom line is a person, once out of prison must continualy be CHANGING their ways. Any person who claims the second rate citizen card, is Really playing the I am a Victim card. Period.

I recently (last three years)... Watched a "Got of of the Pen" dude, go from working with/for a Ministry, to having a good job, he had quality skills, proven out, then hired... Was given ~All~ the help a person could get...

Got his own Business started.... Was really making it....

Guess where he is ???? Back in the Prison he got of...

My POINT is, change MUST be complete, to be Complete. He wanted all the Good Life, and a bit on the Side, too ???? That is why he went in, Once, Twice, BINGO !!!!

THIRD TIME is the charm.

I have worked ~around~ programs to re-integrate felons, for over Three Decades. I have an aquaintance, in California, who ~WAS~ so CHANGED, that his own Parole Officer did not recognize him, AS HE Was in and out of the PO department, Developing a Recovery Program, for Domestic Violence Perpetrators !!!!!

Yes, he was that changed. Did His time, Paid his Price. His PO kept saying "gee, I just feel, I Know You" ... He finally broke down and (from memory) read out his Number: she was so shocked, that she lost composure, and Hugged Him, with tears in her eyes.... You see those who HAVE worked with Felons... Know the recividy rate.

And My Friend beat the Odds... Convicted of Manslaughter, by the way.... But extenuating circumstances gave him a reduced sentence, and the Lord gave him a gift of GRACE, that has never been forgotten.

(Micheal, I love you , Brother. You taught me ~much more~ than I could ever write in Public.....)

I have a BIL in Kalifornia, did "Solidad Time", owns his own Armed Security Company, the State, upon expungement CLEARS. The Federal Record, because it was a State Crime, if its no longer ON the BOOKS, how can the Feds say "felon" ????

Now a FEDERAL FELONY, that is different, and I have no idea for an answer. BTW, BIL had like Three Great character References, Two being Pastors, of long standing in thir communities. Get the help that ~Will~ help.

philp,
Only One thing Really changes a person's Life forever, the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, all else falls way short of the needed ~energy~ ...

 

[rur862]

No sympathy here


He has a felony conviction and he knows it ..and he's in your class? So he's an idiot that doesn't understand or disregards the law and his legal standing.
There are procedures to get them back but that is't your class ...again the idiot stamp applies here!

Posts like this used to disturb me, as a proponent of the 2nd amendment and the Constitution, but increasingly I am glad to see them.

In only 5 short years, the people who share this belief are becoming fewer in the gun rights community, while the amount of people that embrace the ideas of liberty and human dignity are becoming more and more.

Who is with me?

 

[jjackffrost]

you can get a felony conviction for traffic crimes in oregon. How would you like to lose your right for one to many unpaid tickets. but if you have the cash it will all go away.

 

[Grunwald]

No sympathy here


He has a felony conviction and he knows it ..and he's in your class? So he's an idiot that doesn't understand or disregards the law and his legal standing.
There are procedures to get them back but that is't your class ...again the idiot stamp applies here!

First point:
There are a lot of people who end up in jail while breaking laws which are blatantly unconstitutional. Drug laws being the perfect example. I don't care how you feel about drug use because that is a distraction. There is nothing in the US Constitution that allows the government to prohibit drugs. Back at the start of the 20th century the federal government wanted to ban alcohol. It was a stupid idea but at least they went about it the right way They amended the Constitution.
Now they just don't care - they will pass any law regardless of it constitutionality under the guise of public good (yeah, it's for the children).

Point two.
Even if you had broken some law that is constitutional but have served your time to society, the government at that point has no rights to restrict your rights.
Remember the point that your rights are unalienable. These rights are not something that is granted by the government and cannot be removed from an individual by government. If they were they would be called privileges not rights.

 

[eganx]

One more thing.....one must get the felony expunged and have their 2A rights reinstated. Its not a one or the other deal......

To pass a BGC you must have the felony removed. To own a firearm you must have your rights reinstated.

 

[unklekippy]

One more thing.....one must get the felony expunged and have their 2A rights reinstated. Its not a one or the other deal......

To pass a BGC you must have the felony removed. To own a firearm you must have your rights reinstated.

Where in "Shall Not Be Infringed" is that covered? Since the infringement exists in the form of the background check, is it my duty to uphold the standards presented by Washington, Jefferson & Adams? Or am I to uphold the standards presented by Obama, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

Y'know, I'm gonna go with following the rules of our country(The Founders), not following the people that blatantly broke them(The Anti-American career "politicians")).

 

[eganx]

Where in "Shall Not Be Infringed" is that covered? Since the infringement exists in the form of the background check, is it my duty to uphold the standards presented by Washington, Jefferson & Adams? Or am I to uphold the standards presented by Obama, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

Y'know, I'm gonna go with following the rules of our country(The Founders), not following the people that blatantly broke them(The Anti-American career "politicians")).

I'm just telling you how it works from my experience. Go with whatever you like, but try passing a BGC without having a felony expunged and you'll meet a brick wall....

 

[unklekippy]

I'm just telling you how it works from my experience. Go with whatever you like, but try passing a BGC without having a felony expunged and you'll meet a brick wall....

That is fair and true. Still, it does not make it legal within the constraints of our Constitution and I believe to sit back and allow others rights to be trampled will lead to my own being jeopardized.

For me, if you are released from your chains, you are free. If you are free, you are American. If you are American, you stand up in defense of what made and makes our country great. Without firearms ownership, we don't become the leaders of the free world and would have remained "subjects" of a king. I am no subject and won't be treated as such. "Applying" and "asking nicely" for my rights will never be a brick wall for me. If our "leaders" decide to label me as unable to own firearms, I sure the hell wouldn't follow that crap, I don't care what I was accused or even guilty of. The ability to restrict firearm ownership does not exist in our system and in the rules of our country. In fact, the restriction of firearms is SPECIFICALLY prohibited in those rules.

Alas, this argument will go on as long as an oppressive government is allowed to make new rules as they see fit to keep us pinned down. Anyone that ever tries to disarm me will label me a felon posthumously. I would rather die than be defenseless and a subject. To be clear, I tread on no one and no one will tread on me. If we all followed that, we'd be back to the America that the rules were put in place to create and sustain. Not this pseudo-Euro BS that's being pushed. Believe it or not, we crossed an ocean to escape just that.

 

[pdx210]

Posts like this used to disturb me, as a proponent of the 2nd amendment and the Constitution, but increasingly I am glad to see them.

In only 5 short years, the people who share this belief are becoming fewer in the gun rights community, while the amount of people that embrace the ideas of liberty and human dignity are becoming more and more.

Who is with me?

What bothers me and unfortunately is increasing are those that support PART of the constitution but not all of it ...like most of our elected officials.

while I, like many here clearly see the second restricts power of government to regulate firearms 5th amendment outlines how liberties can be taken
from citizens this part right here... "nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law" A felony conviction is the end result of our due process of law.


whole text .

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

 

[BoonDocks36]

What bothers me and unfortunately is increasing are those that support PART of the constitution but not all of it ...l

Without firearms ownership, we don't become the leaders of the free world and would have remained "subjects" of a king.

Add to the first quote, Insert Ideas or Concepts into the constitution. I recall our Fore Fathers speaking of isolationist thinking... No Where do I read "Leaders of the Free World" ...

I agree with "would have remained subjects of the King" hey, we are Americans, not British Americans. In fact I am and always will be Non-Hyphanated... In everything ...

I am first a Christian, by inalienable edict by God HIMSELF, I ~am~ American by Birth Right, and again inalienable, by what our Founding Fathers called the Creator, AKA God. I am a Patriot, supporting my Country, and ~Not~ "my Country, right or wrong", but from our Founding Fathers Thoughts.... Both sides of those thoughts, Federalist or Anti-Federalist, they came together, to form One Constitution...

Choosing words so very carefully.... In Fact, my favorite dictionary, is a Webster's 1812, because it still had the views of Defining Words as our Fore Fathers used them, not today's modern dikShunAirie, where ObamaSpeak might have its place....

But that is enough thread drift for the morning...

In the original Thirteen States, we had laws that were as severe as today, some worse, I for example am not currently a "Land Owiner" so, should I be able to vote ??????

I have several American Born friends who are Negro, in descent, they NOW have the Right to Vote. My Wife (RIP), not only had Rights to Vote, but did Not have to Vote, as I demanded of her....

Just saying...
philip, will finish his Mountain Man Coffee, and chew the bottom of the cup, as usual.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Yea. A bunch a jimmy jiving. Drop a dime and see what's up/necessary.

 

[unklekippy]

What bothers me and unfortunately is increasing are those that support PART of the constitution but not all of it ...like most of our elected officials.

while I, like many here clearly see the second restricts power of government to regulate firearms 5th amendment outlines how liberties can be taken
from citizens this part right here... "nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law" A felony conviction is the end result of our due process of law.


whole text .

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Well played. Still, where is it written that the liberty is still deprived AFTER the due process and the debt being paid? If you can show me where it is written that liberty is lost for life upon committal of a given crime, I will actually change my tune entirely. Until then, I will contend that once the debt is paid, it is in fact over.

 

[unklekippy]

Add to the first quote, Insert Ideas or Concepts into the constitution. I recall our Fore Fathers speaking of isolationist thinking... No Where do I read "Leaders of the Free World" ...

I agree with "would have remained subjects of the King" hey, we are Americans, not British Americans. In fact I am and always will be Non-Hyphanated... In everything ...

I am first a Christian, by inalienable edict by God HIMSELF, I ~am~ American by Birth Right, and again inalienable, by what our Founding Fathers called the Creator, AKA God. I am a Patriot, supporting my Country, and ~Not~ "my Country, right or wrong", but from our Founding Fathers Thoughts.... Both sides of those thoughts, Federalist or Anti-Federalist, they came together, to form One Constitution...

Choosing words so very carefully.... In Fact, my favorite dictionary, is a Webster's 1812, because it still had the views of Defining Words as our Fore Fathers used them, not today's modern dikShunAirie, where ObamaSpeak might have its place....

But that is enough thread drift for the morning...

In the original Thirteen States, we had laws that were as severe as today, some worse, I for example am not currently a "Land Owiner" so, should I be able to vote ??????

I have several American Born friends who are Negro, in descent, they NOW have the Right to Vote. My Wife (RIP), not only had Rights to Vote, but did Not have to Vote, as I demanded of her....

Just saying...
philip, will finish his Mountain Man Coffee, and chew the bottom of the cup, as usual.

I wish I could support your statement, but I was very clear in that freedom and The Constitution ALLOWED us to become the "leaders of the free world". Never did I imply that it was a stated goal. In fact, I'd rather we didn't hold that position and were far more isolationist. I am sure that Mr.'s Washington, Jefferson & Adams would agree.

Without our Constitution and our Founding Fathers, the drive, ambition and means to become the best on this Earth wouldn't have been there. I don't think anyone that has ever read any of my posts would mistake me for someone that believes we should be the world's police and welfare provider, or provide "leadership" for anyone but ourselves.

 

[BoonDocks36]

UnkleK, Sorry if you feel I misquoted your ~intended meaning~ I re-read your original post, that I quoted, and can not see that intention, However, we agree on the "lets Not be Leaders..." And so, I will chalk it up to learn how to read your posts, I mostly agreed with what you were saying....

I know, that sometimes my tounge hangsover my eye teeth, and Eye can't see what Eye am writing!!!!

philip,
Cutting slack is easy, hanging some one is such a final statement, we just reserve that for Super bad Guys, here in the BoonDocks !!!!!

 

[hermannr]

I just had my very first student that I had to turn down due to a prior felony conviction. I felt awful for the guy, who is a stand-up GG, but who also had a felony possession conviction for Heroin in 1986.

Absent concerns over furnishing weapons to a convicted felon, I would have taught this guy and sold him guns in a hot minute. He's a solid Good Guy.

But his conviction stands.

I've ZERO experience in getting someone's rights restored in WA state. What does it take? -Experienced only please reply. Yes, I already told him to talk to a lawyer, but I understand it's doable without one.

Does NOT take a lawyer...actually, most lawyers will not give you the time of day for this.

#1: Go to county clerk's office of county the guy was convicted in. He needs a certified copy of the judgment, and it can only be obtained in person.

#2: While at the county clerks office (or the Yakima county clerk if he was convicted in a different county) ask for the instructions and paperwork necessary to restore his civil rights. (this includes his right to vote, as well as firearms)

#3: Get a court date for the hearing from the county clerk. This will cost somewhere between $100 and $300 depending on county. DO NOT be late or MISS THIS COURT DATE!!!!!!! You will have to pay again, and it will not look good on your record.

#4: His paperwork will tell him he needs a WSP arrest record, and tell him how to obtain one, Be careful here...this costs money and is only good for 30 days...you need to have a hearing date before you actually get this information.

#5: Present the form and yourself properly at the hearing and you will be clean at the NCIS within 72 hours.

(I did not actually do this myself, but helped someone that had be involuntarily committed because of a very bad reaction to a prescription med (no, not an antidepressant).

Spokane County has all the information online. You cannot use theirs in Yakima co, but Yakima county will have something VERY similar...except it will say it is for Yakima co.

I looked for the old packet but they have changed the site a bit. you might want to read this: (this is state) : Washington State Courts - Court Forms - Vacating/Sealing Records

 

[pdx210]

Well played. Still, where is it written that the liberty is still deprived AFTER the due process and the debt being paid? If you can show me where it is written that liberty is lost for life upon committal of a given crime, I will actually change my tune entirely. Until then, I will contend that once the debt is paid, it is in fact over.

it's not just a mater of a debt being paid.

The 5th grants the power to deprived of life, liberty, or property, with due process of law... It doesn't say anywhere that they have to be given back?

A felony is a lable society gives that says a person isn't responsible adult, a social miscreant, mentally ill or just plain stupid!
In addition to firearms you can't be a doctor , lawyer, investment broker among other things these people are stripped
of professional credentials and the right to practice, Naturalized citizens stripped of citizenship and deported and these are forever!



As stated above there is a way to expunge a felony

 

[Kruel J]

Since I have never been arrested, convicted or otherwise....paid my few traffic tickets, act responsibly and don't do stupid things I guess I'm having a hard time being sympathetic to this thread. Of course, I'm one of those idiots that never calls in sick, works hard and pays his bills on time. And in my free time I can be found taking care of my family in an honest and law-abiding manner. Go figure.

 

[unklekippy]

it's not just a mater of a debt being paid.

The 5th grants the power to deprived of life, liberty, or property, with due process of law... It doesn't say anywhere that they have to be given back?

A felony is a lable society gives that says a person isn't responsible adult, a social miscreant, mentally ill or just plain stupid!
In addition to firearms you can't be a doctor , lawyer, investment broker among other things these people are stripped
of professional credentials and the right to practice, Naturalized citizens stripped of citizenship and deported and these are forever!



As stated above there is a way to expunge a felony

So, where is it written that rights are lost for life? Where is the inclusion of "felonies" and the exclusion of "misdemeanors"? I don't see your point here. Nowhere does the Fifth say that if someone is convicted of crimes(a lot of which are in fact Unconstitutional to begin with) they lose all rights for life, yet that is what you tell me.

A felony is a label the government gives to people it needs to keep under their thumb. Please, point out in the Fifth where you are no longer allowed to be in certain professions for jaywalking? Since you will undoubtedly say "You can't lose rights for jaywalking", please show me where this line that you created in the Fifth is drawn? At what point does an oppressive, illegal government get to strip rights? Murder? Drug possession? Jaywalking? Nowhere is any of that written. I conceded you had a slight point and you decided to drag the Bill of Rights through the mud. Implying that the Fifth gives the government the right to brand anyone they choose as "ineligible" for rights is disgusting.