Just a thought

[clearconscience]

We have been being invaded for decades, from the south.

They recognized, the death by a thousand cuts

 

[41mag]

ey'd look to take the Eastern states first.

can you elaborate the kinetics and liklihood of this scenario?

 

[edzz]

Let us not forget The Pig War.

 

[zenbreath]

Let us not forget The Pig War.

The Pig War is worth studying. The lesson is to be ready and disciplined, without being aggressive.

 

[Grumpa]

Andy... Your assessment of collaborators is undoubtedly correct, especially after life gets tough and "friendlies" would be granted extra food, fuel, passes, and other material gain to feed their families and just survive. It would be the job of the Resistance Security forces to eliminate collaborators and terrorize the population to the point that open co-operation would be likely fatal. This was the key to the successful Irish Rebellion 1919-1922.. The IRA and other groups held the balance of terror over the general population.
This happened in all the occupied countries. In some cases men enlisted in police forces or military units to resist their own governments. The Waffen-SS recruited a lot of western Euros in every occupied country, and later more divisions from most countries in eastern Europa, with the exception of Poland. The clarion-call was "Defeat the Bolshevik monsters", a great Crusade that I would have been tempted to join.
Vichy was a different matter, at least until the Germans occupied it. Vichy was nominally at least "free", or as free as a police state can be. Many Vichy French went to N Africa and continued resistance. A number of Frenchmen joined the Waffen SS.

I would give you my thoughts on this but I'd be labeled an extremist and most likely banned to cut all associations between NW Firearms and myself. But be clear, I'm a patriot, through and through.
So I'll keep it short and somewhat vague. It is the right and more importantly the responsibility of every patriot to defend the Constitution and our United States of America by any means necessary.
I made up my mind during a conversation with some gun buddies about possible gun confiscation. My mind drifted off to images of large semi trailers parked near city hall or the courthouse. "Govt. officials" milling around with lines of people, enemies of my country, handing over their guns. When I told my gun buddies what my plans were, they all got a shocked look on their faces and questioned me about my ideas. Needless to say, I knew who would and would not stand shoulder to shoulder with me to defend our nation.

 

[44s rock]

Tell that to Alaska - WW2. Japanese had control of some Aleutian islands. Territory, not state at the time.

There are some good stories about a few brave men getting the Japanese out. Not Soldiers - although they too served with distinction. Locals who new the area from hunting and fishing.

They also tried balloon bombs along the Oregon coast.

Germany had U Boats off the eastern shore. I also read that a few Germans made it to shore, only to be captured, nt sure if true or not.

 

[DunRanull]

They also tried balloon bombs along the Oregon coast.

Germany had U Boats off the eastern shore. I also read that a few Germans made it to shore, only to be captured, nt sure if true or not.

IIRC, one or two of the balloon bombs did start fires in the PNW and killed several people. The Nazis sent agents via subs off the east coast- 8 that I can recall.. they had explosives and supposed contacts. The FIB guys picked them up before any damage was done. Likely one or more of their "contacts" ratted them right out. In the event those agents were convicted of being intelligence agents of a Hostile Power and were hanged as spies. The US still refuses to allow their remains to be sent back to Germany.

 

[Hueco]

can you elaborate the kinetics and liklihood of this scenario?

Well, first up - I'm no military strategist nor do I play one on TV.

But, my thought was this: While it initially makes sense that an invasion from China would come across the Pacific, land on the West Coast, and then move over land across the country...this is a plan that has incredible risk.

The United States is freaking huge. Ridiculously huge, really. If Germany had the same run it had in WWII, but starting in D.C., they'd have only made it to the Mississippi (approximately [and I'm only looking at distance traveled]).

The hub of the US Government is on the East Coast, along with most of our financial centers. If you want to take the US, you'd have to take the East Coast.

So, assuming that China did land on the West Coast, they'd have to first secure landing, then travel over the Sierra Nevada mountains, then the Rockies, then an ungodly amount of midwest farmland, cross the Mississippi, before having to cross the Appalachians. These are all great geologic choke points where a local band of gorilla fighters could do some heavy damage. My guess is that no army would or could ever invade on the West Coast and make it all the way to the East by land.

In response to that thought, I think that any invading force would attempt to find a way to invade the East Coast at damn near all costs. *Maybe* come up from the South via Mexico and Florida instead of a direct on the East.

Still...even then, I don't think any force could take the entire US in the 21st century. Too darn big and too many people capable of being soldiers. There hasn't been a massive land-grab conquest since the popularization of the gun.

 

[Camelfilter]

Well, first up - I'm no military strategist nor do I play one on TV.

But, my thought was this: While it initially makes sense that an invasion from China would come across the Pacific, land on the West Coast, and then move over land across the country...this is a plan that has incredible risk.

The United States is freaking huge. Ridiculously huge, really. If Germany had the same run it had in WWII, but starting in D.C., they'd have only made it to the Mississippi (approximately [and I'm only looking at distance traveled]).

The hub of the US Government is on the East Coast, along with most of our financial centers. If you want to take the US, you'd have to take the East Coast.

So, assuming that China did land on the West Coast, they'd have to first secure landing, then travel over the Sierra Nevada mountains, then the Rockies, then an ungodly amount of midwest farmland, cross the Mississippi, before having to cross the Appalachians. These are all great geologic choke points where a local band of gorilla fighters could do some heavy damage. My guess is that no army would or could ever invade on the West Coast and make it all the way to the East by land.

In response to that thought, I think that any invading force would attempt to find a way to invade the East Coast at damn near all costs. *Maybe* come up from the South via Mexico and Florida instead of a direct on the East.

Still...even then, I don't think any force could take the entire US in the 21st century. Too darn big and too many people capable of being soldiers. There hasn't been a massive land-grab conquest since the popularization of the gun.

Alternatively, "they" could nuke the Easts seats of government & commerce. Then invade the West as a "friendly gesture" of security, never to bother with beyond the Rocky Mountains...

That'd go over well...

 

[Hueco]

Alternatively, "they" could nuke the Easts seats of government & commerce. Then invade the West as a "friendly gesture" of security, never to bother with beyond the Rocky Mountains...

That'd go over well...

If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.
--Machiavelli

Never leave behind a man, woman, or child who can ever hold a sword.
--Cerdic (King Arthur, 2004)

Mountain forests, rugged steeps, marshes and fens-all country that is hard to traverse: this is difficult ground.

Ground which is reached through narrow gorges, and from which we can only retire by tortuous paths, so that a small number of the enemy would suffice to crush a large body of our men: this is hemmed in ground.

Ground on which we can only be saved from destruction by fighting without delay, is desperate ground.
--Sun Tzu

Like I said in a previous post, WWIII will take a long, long time from which to recover. The US population would have to be nuked to depletion in order to have any chance of securing the states...and as a newly created nuclear wasteland, what would be the point? But if you didn't nuke it to oblivion, then the population would maintain control. Even if "they" only took the West up to the Rockies, I don't think it'd be long before they are repulsed.

Keep especially in mind that China would be just as fried and supply lines difficult, if not impossible, to maintain.

No, what seems more apt for the 21st century is in changing peoples. You don't have to conquer an opponent culture if you can change them to a friendly or subservient one. The West has done this plenty with the spread of democracy, capitalism, and free market values and beliefs. But, China and Russia have done this as well.

Here's the big question: Will Chinese culture embrace democracy, free thought, and western ideals * before * the US embraces collectivism and communism?

 

[Stomper]

Tell that to the southern border.

That is the MOAB of all posts in this thread.... 'nuff said, please lock the thread.... the discussion is OVER!!

 

[DunRanull]

An overt military invasion of the N American countries would end with the destruction of several large countries and turn vast areas of Asia and N America ( and probably more) into uninhabitable zones for tens of thousands of years. N B C war is unthinkable as only ONE leg of that triad would poison the atmosphere, land, and oceans into unlivable Hells... Not even the southern hemisphere, Oceana, and Antarctica will escape. Our "blip" in Time would end in a mass extinction, as has happened several times in the paast on this world..
That said, my personal view is that Humanity being what we are, it is only a matter of time before we manage to destroy "our" planet and commit mass extinction.
My Dad believed that Jesus would return before such came to pass- that the Almighty would stop mankind from destroying Creation. My own outlook is different as I realise that this planet is only one speck in an unimaginably huge galaxy, in an endless Universe of an untold number of galaxies. GOD help us all!

 

[DunRanull]

Hueco said: "No, what seems more apt for the 21st century is in changing peoples. You don't have to conquer an opponent culture if you can change them to a friendly or subservient one. The West has done this plenty with the spread of democracy, capitalism, and free market values and beliefs. But, China and Russia have done this as well.
Here's the big question: Will Chinese culture embrace democracy, free thought, and western ideals * before * the US embraces collectivism and communism?"

Dun sez: Seems like the US is embracing some collectivism and socialism along with the centralised mega-state concepts of the 20th century. Red China is moving painfully in the direction of more open society and capitalist economies.. Neither system in it's purer forms has been deemed worthy to continue without reforms, and evolve we have, at much human cost in lives and sorrows..
Could be that with wisdom and some luck both camps will reach a "common ground" eventually, before we destroy the planet and ourselves. We shall see...

 

[ditchtiger]

A blade of grass isn't going to do it for some of what I have. Maybe an Oak tree.

 

[Ownerus]

As a small boy, probably 60 years ago, my father (a WW2 veteran of the Philippines) explained to me that "they", referring to Chinese and Japanese, don't value life the way we do. They have SO MANY people that the loss of a few hundred thousand.. or million.. people is not a big deal. I think history before and since has shown him to be correct. If, God forbid, we come into open conflict with China, the one thing they do not need is more people. Land? Yes, especially agricultural land. I think it's naive to think they would have any compunction about exterminating the entire population of the western hemisphere through chemical or biological means if it meant they could farm here unopposed in a few years. I suspect we could discover there really is no limit on man's inhumanity to man.

No adversary should ever be allowed to think we lack either the means or the will to thwart any such attempt. Or that it's anything but suicidal to try.

 

[Koda]

My history is not that good but i think the last time we were invaded it was the brits? Anyway would you invade a country knowing most people were armed and would defend the country? Not only would our military defend it but the rest of us would too, well the people who believe in the second amendment anyway. Lets hear some thoughts

if we were actually invaded we wouldn't have a choice. Not only would those who believed in the 2A, but the anti-gunners would suddenly take up arms as well.

My guess is the antis would have more casualties, but im pretty biased there. I just know one doesnt become a gunfighter by just buying a gun....

 

[shibbershabber]

Pancho Villa, 1917. Assorted other more recent border incursions by (alleged) Mexican military, it has been claimed. Daily invasions of southern border by Mex, Guat, terrorists of any kind.... BORDERS, Culture, Language. American is in the process of losing all three.

Except that half of the voting population is actively promoting that loss

 

[Ura-Ki]

If one were to have a quick look at "Current" China and it's military, one would see they seriously lack in "Prime Movers" capable of moving men, and it's met who take and hold ground! China is building up it's Naval forces, much as Russia had done, and to ruinous expense, but none the less, they are a serious threat, and will be at or near parity with the United States Navy within 5 years or so! While I suspect their capabilities will still lag behind, as did the Russians, their shear size makes them a big threat! Make no mistake here, China is impotent with out an extremely powerful navy, and with out, they stand ZERO chance of successfully launching any invasion to anywhere! As to the possibilities of things going Nuke, Possibly, but to go all the way to Nukes would ensure mutual self destruction, some thing China expressly wants to avoid, after all, the whole point is to TAKE and HOLD what we have here, all to take and control the supply and flow of food, and to secure the worlds sources of OIL for their own exclusive use, to the detriment of the rest of the world, AND Russia! Make no mistake, China will also attack Russia while they are still relatively weak! Europe, just a speed bump to the ultimate goals!

Don't forget, the Spanish American war secured the Philippines and several Pacific islands which became U.S. Territories, so, when Japan invaded and took those islands, they were in fact successful in invading and holding American soil!