Just A Short Statement About Gun Failures

[longcolt]

I enjoy watching the videos that are prepared by NRA and Rob Pincus' outfit, and I have purchased many over the last year or so.

One of the comments that stuck with me that Rob brought up was the fact that when folks went through training with their back up pistols and short barreled ultra 1911's few got through the training without mechanical problems. In fact many of the weapons could not be used to finish the course.

So his point was that its better to carry a full size or close to full size pistol if you are expecting 100% reliability with your defensive weapon. This training was geared more for the police officers than just concealed carry users.

Most of the small hideout or ultra size weapons work for defensive use but if you get into a serious exchange of rounds the possibility of a jam or misfire goes up with time and use.

The majority of us who carry for defensive purposes will never have an issue since defensive exchanges are usually over in seconds. So the compromise carry of a small light weapon works just fine.

If you want the security of knowing you can clear the mall you best pack a full size weapon and have extra magazines.

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[SSG]

The issue isn't size, but design......

 

[wichaka]

Short barreled 1911's can be persnickety sometimes. They have to do the same thing as a full size version, but in a shorter time.

Would like to hear what models he has encountered that failed to make it thru.

The smaller guns are made for up close and personal. fire a few rounds and vacate the area fast. Not made for extended firefights and bullseye type shooting.

 

[tionico]

the tiny ultra compact pistols are for a specific purpose.... mainly as a deterrent. The thugs in the park are far more likely to decide to look for greener pastures when presented with the small .380 opening at the business end of something like an LCP than they would be when presented with a request to leave me alone. I got one for a very specific carry scenario which is best fulfilled by something very small and lightweight. Haven't fired it much, but so far it's worked flawlessly.

I'd far rather, and often do, carry something a bit more substantial.... but in those situations the larger size and greater weight are not prohibitive. Rugged, reliable, powerful.... but, for the one specific carry need, the LCP fills the bill. I hope I never have to present it to a troublemaker......

A small revolver, such as the Smith J-Frame, is an excellent next notch up in size and weight..... which I carried until the LCP came out. They are VERY reliable, small enough to conceal deeply, and with .38 + P rounds, carry a significant bit of authority.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I always carry a full size primary, usually .40 or .45. The smallest I carry even for a 2nd BUG is a M43 Firestar 9MM

 

[Riot]

The issue isn't size, but design......

+1

I used to do IDPA with my Glock 27 subcompact...it was an eye-opener to say the least. But I've NEVER had a malfunction with that gun...EVER. To generalize that you need a full sized handgun is a bit out there in my opinion. Each person is unique- their hands, body type, place of carry, budget and skill level determine the type of firearm that they will need.

 

[Ben B.]

The 1911 is made up of many parts that seem prone to failure or in need of perfect tune...Still I can almost guarantee the guy with the most cut up hands and the gun that malfunctions is shooting a 1911. It's a tough affair with pay offs

Disagree completely with that guarantee. Not at all what I've seen in the various matches. At the regular range, it's hard to tell what's going on when Joe Sixpack has a gun that isn't running.

Most of the failures in matches are ammo related, and Glocks get a lot of that failure. I collect Glock failures (the magic gun that always runs and never breaks) that I personally witness, and I have some doozies.

 

[shelt]

the tiny ultra compact pistols are for a specific purpose.... mainly as a deterrent. The thugs in the park are far more likely to decide to look for greener pastures when presented with the small .380 opening at the business end of something like an LCP than they would be when presented with a request to leave me alone. I got one for a very specific carry scenario which is best fulfilled by something very small and lightweight. Haven't fired it much, but so far it's worked flawlessly.

I'd far rather, and often do, carry something a bit more substantial.... but in those situations the larger size and greater weight are not prohibitive. Rugged, reliable, powerful.... but, for the one specific carry need, the LCP fills the bill. I hope I never have to present it to a troublemaker......

A small revolver, such as the Smith J-Frame, is an excellent next notch up in size and weight..... which I carried until the LCP came out. They are VERY reliable, small enough to conceal deeply, and with .38 + P rounds, carry a significant bit of authority.

Been eyeing the LCP at fred meyers myself. I think that will do the job until I can afford a Rohrbaugh

 

[Just Jim]

So you must be talking semi autos and not revovlers. While I find the subject interesting how often would joe average find himself in an extended gunfight with his backup gun? It's hard to think that anyone carrying a backup would carry enough ammo for an extended gunfight. Maybe if both guns were in the same calibur?

jj

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Disagree completely with that guarantee. Not at all what I've seen in the various matches. At the regular range, it's hard to tell what's going on when Joe Sixpack has a gun that isn't running.

Most of the failures in matches are ammo related, and Glocks get a lot of that failure. I collect Glock failures (the magic gun that always runs and never breaks) that I personally witness, and I have some doozies.

I have never seen or experienced a failure with a Glock that was not ammo related or operator error. I have owned 4 of them. Not saying it does not happen otherwise, but it's rare

 

[Just Jim]

I have never seen or experienced a failure with a Glock that was not ammo related or operator error. I have owned 4 of them. Not saying it does not happen otherwise, but it's rare

My memory isn't perfect but I do recall a officer involved shooting in Portland where the female officer was killed and her Glock was found to be jammed. While this is no condemnation of Glocks I feel the light handguns need firm support when they are fired or jams will occur. If you are bleeding out and your strength starts to go the gun may be more prone to jamming.

Just opinion of course founded on reading and watching jams at shooting matches.

jj

 

[Blitzkrieg]

A fellow over at Glocktalk has put over 1 million rds through his G21 in an amazing torture test that included tossing it repeatedly out of an airplane into fields, freezing it in mud and slurries he made up, and burying it in mud in his backyard for 2 years and then doing a 500rd test where it was fired by shooter after shooter, firing one mag each. No parts breakage, original recoil spring. he did have a few FTF in that 500 rd test, but still amazing. He captured most of the tests on video or in pictures

Try that with a 1911.. I like them and have several, but the Glock is the AK47 of handguns

 

[Just Jim]

I have never seen or experienced a failure with a Glock that was not ammo related or operator error. I have owned 4 of them. Not saying it does not happen otherwise, but it's rare

A fellow over at Glocktalk has put over 1 million rds through his G21 in an amazing torture test that included tossing it repeatedly out of an airplane into fields, freeing it in mud and slurries he made up, and buying it in mud in his backyard for 2 years and then doing a 500rd test where it was fired by shooter after shooter, firing one mag each. No parts breakage, original recoil spring. he did have a few FTF in that 500 rd test, but still amazing. He captured most of the tests on video or in pictures

Try that with a 1911.. I like them and have several, but the Glock is the AK47 of handguns

Everything fails at some point, everthing.

jj

 

[Blitzkrieg]

My memory isn't perfect but I do recall a officer involved shooting in Portland where the female officer was killed and her Glock was found to be jammed. While this is no condemnation of Glocks I feel the light handguns need firm support when they are fired or jams will occur. If you are bleeding out and your strength starts to go the gun may be more prone to jamming.

Just opinion of course founded on reading and watching jams at shooting matches.

jj

No doubt you need to hold the Glock firmly. I have never had a FTF but my wife did until I retrained her.. she was a revolver person and needed to hold the Glock harder. Now, no problems

 

[Just Jim]

Friend had a glock 19 in his back pants pocket when he fell while going down a trail. The bending of the plastick frame allowed the slide to jump the rail and jam the gun. I had a 19 that the springs in the mags went bad, wouldn't feed.

I still own 4 glocks and like them but know what their weaknesses are.

jj

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Everything fails at some point, everthing.

jj

Yep, and the 1911 will fail much sooner than a Glock. If I remember right the 1911 was designed for a service life of 100,000 rds or less

 

[Just Jim]

Yep, and the 1911 will fail much sooner than a Glock. If I remember right the 1911 was designed for a service life of 100,000 rds or less

Well if I made a living carrying a gun I might be concerned about how long my 1911 will function. I doubt joe average will ever shoot enough rounds to wear his gun out, ammo is too exspensive. So to me the point is lost as most men might shoot 10,000 rounds through their favorite gun in a lifetime. So it failing at 100,000 means little.

jj

 

[The Quiet Man]

Usually when I see autos having failures it is a 1911 or a Taurus auto of some type... Some 1911 owners probably just cringed Hey it is true some Taurus autos suck and 1911's are high maintenance.

I've been lucky to have only good Taurus products but I have heard and seen the opposite too.

The 1911 is made up of many parts that seem prone to failure or in need of perfect tune. The reason they still have such a huge following is because of how sweet they are when they work correctly. No doubt about it. Something about the way they feel and point in the hand...Accurate, fast shooting, SOB's! Still I can almost guarantee the guy with the most cut up hands and the gun that malfunctions is shooting a 1911. It's a tough affair with pay offs

Heresy!!! You will burn in heck for that one

Firearm quality goes a long way in regards to reliability. Buy junk and it will break down. Understanding the firearm and it's maintenance needs also impacts reliability. Any mechanical device you just "take out of the box" and expect to function at 100% will disappoint you. I'll stick to my high quality 1911's that I understand and take care of. No cuts, bruises, or surprises I'm not bashing tupperwear, or non-1911 designs. There are many good ones out there. I just think a high quality 1911 is at the top of the list in competent hands.

 

[Just Jim]

The 1911 needs no defense as it has earned a record that will take over a hundred years to beat. It served our country with honor.

jj

 

[chemist]

Heresy!!! You will burn in heck for that one

Heck is where people go who don't believe in Gosh.