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When I was a kid, I went out on a local creek and piddled around with a pan and a shovel. I must have been 16 or 17. I spent 4 or 5 hours futzing around and pulled nearly an ounce of gold. For that 4 hours I made three hundred some odd dollars. I think the price was 375 or 380 an ounce back then.

And yes, I had made sure I was not on someones claim...it was just a creek on BLM land.

I think I heard the figure of 5% or 15% of the gold is above ground and found? I know that when I get back down to the valley I will be spending some more time in those remote creeks.
 
I own my property outright, but I still pay property taxes on it and have no problem doing so, you know why? Because I know that money is going to services that I actually get value from. If somebody breaks into my home, I know I will have law enforcement respond within a reasonable time.

No, stop deluding yourself. You don't own your land. The state does. You are renting the government's land, the king's land as it were. Thats what a property tax is. If they can ultimately take your land from you for not paying the tax, its not your land. Same as how an income tax is ultimately slavery to the King. Who owns your work? You? Tell that to the liars in the IRS. They take it out of your paycheck before you even see it. As much as I hated sales taxes growing up in California and loving Oregon's lack of a sales tax as a teen, the reality is that tariffs/sales taxes are the most fair option to get revenue to run government and often will keep it in check more than income or property taxes. Divide and conquer various interests to fight amongst themselves as the treasury and the populace's individual wallets are raided.

For pete's sake look at the supreme court's ruling on the Kelo case. Eminent domain used to raise tax revenue. The taco supreme's weaseled out again on something clearly written in the bill of rights and left it to the states.
 
Some of your blind hate for the government is no better than a far left liberal's blind hate for a republican.

This is one time I will support state government.

The people in these timber counties are no better than the food stamp / welfare leeches we all complain about. When you put all your eggs in one basket and lose it all without a back up, you only have yourself to blame. These people counted on timber revenues far too long and when that dried up they counted on federal kick backs without coming up with a way to survive on their own and now that is dried up they don't want to own up to it. These counties already have the lowest property tax rates in the state, no surprise they also are having the most trouble paying for their basic services. NOTHING IS FREE.

These people whine about law enforcement cuts and the increasing crime, but when a solution is offered they refuse, because they actually have to pay for it.

Arming yourself is only a temporary fix, we can't have people going around shooting people claiming so and so wronged them, eventually you'll just have people killing others out of anger. Lawlessness is not the answer and the people have a basic duty to provide basic services to ensure safety of the people.

These people are being reckless and the constitution doesn't give any one the right to do so. PAY YOUR OWN WAY AND QUIT WHINING.

Pay your own way? OK, sell all of the Federal and State reserved timber lands to private companies so they will have to pay property tax just like any other property owner...OK?

The whole idea of the timber tax was so counties with large federal and state timber holdings would be compensated for property tax revenue they were not able to collect from these other governmental entities.
 
No, stop deluding yourself. You don't own your land. The state does. You are renting the government's land, the king's land as it were. Thats what a property tax is. If they can ultimately take your land from you for not paying the tax, its not your land. Same as how an income tax is ultimately slavery to the King. Who owns your work? You? Tell that to the liars in the IRS. They take it out of your paycheck before you even see it. As much as I hated sales taxes growing up in California and loving Oregon's lack of a sales tax as a teen, the reality is that tariffs/sales taxes are the most fair option to get revenue to run government and often will keep it in check more than income or property taxes. Divide and conquer various interests to fight amongst themselves as the treasury and the populace's individual wallets are raided.

For pete's sake look at the supreme court's ruling on the Kelo case. Eminent domain used to raise tax revenue. The taco supreme's weaseled out again on something clearly written in the bill of rights and left it to the states.

Darn great post, RB87!!!!

:s0155:
 
The house we live in right now has been paid off since the late 1970's. But we must pay a little over $3,300 each year in rent( property taxes) to live here.

Something is really messed up about that, I just know it. :s0077:
 
10%

That is all it would take. If just 10% of the population would wake up, organize, and flat out refuse to let the government, be it county or federal, to continue in the manner that it is currently operating, and just stop paying all of the nonsense rental fees to live someplace they already own. That would be all it would take.

First off, it would be financially crippling. Second, they could not feasibly jail, evict, remove, or confiscate from that amount of people.

It would force them to fix the problem.

We are not in a democracy, this is a constitutional republic. The point of that is that we give up a certain amount of our decision, and policy making for the greater good of the entire population. The problem is that we have gone beyond that. We have given that small portion of our population nearly all of the control, and they have been self serving and irresponsible with it.

10% is all it would take to start heading things back in the right direction.
 
In the last say 3 years or so it baffles me that more of a change hasn't happened . Not the Obama change but a change back towards more freedom and government operating within the bounds of Our Constitution.

Sorta weird and disheartening.
 
Second, they could not feasibly jail, evict, remove, or confiscate from that amount of people.

Ohhh but they would do their best and try first. Way too many useful idiots out there with their authority and their perks to give all that up without a fight. It would harder for them to do what is morally and constitutionally right then to give it up.
 
Ohhh but they would do their best and try first. Way too many useful idiots out there with their authority and their perks to give all that up without a fight. It would harder for them to do what is morally and constitutionally right then to give it up.

Absolutely.

But if that 10% was well enough organized, then you would have a sizable group of people waiting to greet them when they did come. The trick is to beat them at their own game. They think they will gang up on one guy at a time, make sure that they are the ones outnumbered when the time comes...
 
I think the only way that would ever happen is if they got caught with their pants down and it really pissed off the non government working American citizens. Until then nothing much will change I imagine.
 
Some of your blind hate for the government is no better than a far left liberal's blind hate for a republican.

This is one time I will support state government.

The people in these timber counties are no better than the food stamp / welfare leeches we all complain about. When you put all your eggs in one basket and lose it all without a back up, you only have yourself to blame. These people counted on timber revenues far too long and when that dried up they counted on federal kick backs without coming up with a way to survive on their own and now that is dried up they don't want to own up to it. These counties already have the lowest property tax rates in the state, no surprise they also are having the most trouble paying for their basic services. NOTHING IS FREE.

These people whine about law enforcement cuts and the increasing crime, but when a solution is offered they refuse, because they actually have to pay for it.

Arming yourself is only a temporary fix, we can't have people going around shooting people claiming so and so wronged them, eventually you'll just have people killing others out of anger. Lawlessness is not the answer and the people have a basic duty to provide basic services to ensure safety of the people.

These people are being reckless and the constitution doesn't give any one the right to do so. PAY YOUR OWN WAY AND QUIT WHINING.

I am SO tired of people from Portland and their superior attitudes. They are the ones who voted away the livelihoods of the "timber counties", and then they blame the inhabitants for being poor. That's like blaming the rape victim. After all, their logging was in the way of your enjoyment of "pristine wilderness". I'm so sick of that BS. We'll see how it plays when Intel, Nike, and others eventually move away from the PDX cesspool because the taxes are so high, and the quality of life is so bad they can't hire people to work there. Oh the squealing we'll hear. But when the shoe is on someone else's foot, it's their own fault.
 
I don't want to read all of this in order to make a statement. It never changes back in the late 1970 - early 80s a place on the coast was to be our next saving grace, Coos Bay only needed Three Million tax payer dollars to create a waist disposal {Beaver Hill - Between Coos Bay Bandon, OR on Hwy 101 and on County property} that would in the end create energy from public waist. Providing an Electric Generators, an energy generating system that would produce electricity. Free of cost to the public using Public Waist. [Providing generators to make power from waist].
Again -Savings directly to the public!
This was during the first phase of private Solar energy investments.
They [The City Of Coos Bay] Never constructed the generators {2] and scammed the public out of Three million Dollars using radio and television adds to win a two times defeated Public Vote. The scam persisted until it passed the third time at public expense. The site has been in conflict recently at the threat of needing up grades, or closure is at stake.

Where did the first three million go? Whose pocket is it in?
As for the pit- At The time of investment It iwas two twenty five thousand dollar cement incinerators that include a steel roof and concrete wall with Iron rail at additional expense to the project and a County Collection Booth that charges by the yard.
Electrical Generators were never installed.
The people that run our government are a bunch greedy of thieves that have moved there interests to China so they don't have to pay our wages. The remainder are a bunch of small town politician picking the pockets of the public .
I am for one in favor of selling the Governors mansion, his helicopter and half a dozen perks he doesn't need. Things we the tax Payers can no longer afford to pay for, given the state of our present economic times.
After all these things were acquired when American citizens, had good jobs, worked hard and paid taxes and gas was under a dollar a gallon. They are simply not affordable given the present economic circumstances. Call a spade a spade.
Silver Hand
 

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