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Josephine County Part Two

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Black Dog, May 26, 2013.

  1. Black Dog

    Black Dog Eagle Creek Or Active Member

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    In Sundays Oregonian, The Oregon Law Makers are moving to impose new local income taxes to improve local law enforcement in counties that are short on money. Josephine and Curry counties are going to be first. Kitzhaber and Law Makers from both parties are stepping up the push. So the peoples vote means nothing they will jam it down your throat like it or not. No matter how much they give them it won't ever be enough.
     
  2. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's complete BS. It makes me really, really angry, and I just keep trying to figure out what I can do to change it or stop it or make a difference.
     
  3. nwo

    nwo Southern Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It is BS for sure.
     
  4. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    Actually it is 100% unequivocal proof, that regardless of what voters say or do, TPTB are just going to do whatever the hell they want. If we vote things down, they will take the choice away and force it. And just try to not pay the extra tacked on forcibly, they will basically try ruin your life in every possible way. Wage garnishment, bank levy, liens on property, and eventually confiscation of the things that you own, up to and including the very home you own and are not paying their forced tax on.

    The thing is, if everyone refused, there wouldn't be a damned thing they could do. Unfortunately, we are trained to just grumble and write the check. This is out of hand. It's time to stand up to these people, but it has to be done in an organised manner, and it has to be everyone. No means no, right? I guess not.
     
  5. PDXoriginal

    PDXoriginal PNW Well-Known Member

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    Some of your blind hate for the government is no better than a far left liberal's blind hate for a republican.

    This is one time I will support state government.

    The people in these timber counties are no better than the food stamp / welfare leeches we all complain about. When you put all your eggs in one basket and lose it all without a back up, you only have yourself to blame. These people counted on timber revenues far too long and when that dried up they counted on federal kick backs without coming up with a way to survive on their own and now that is dried up they don't want to own up to it. These counties already have the lowest property tax rates in the state, no surprise they also are having the most trouble paying for their basic services. NOTHING IS FREE.

    These people whine about law enforcement cuts and the increasing crime, but when a solution is offered they refuse, because they actually have to pay for it.

    Arming yourself is only a temporary fix, we can't have people going around shooting people claiming so and so wronged them, eventually you'll just have people killing others out of anger. Lawlessness is not the answer and the people have a basic duty to provide basic services to ensure safety of the people.

    These people are being reckless and the constitution doesn't give any one the right to do so. PAY YOUR OWN WAY AND QUIT WHINING.
     
  6. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    And yet the fall of the timber industry can be traced directly back to those liberal whack jobs you have the nerve to compare me to.

    Remember the tree hugger, save the spotted owl, kill or maim loggers by spiking trees, movement? Yeah, libs like the sierra club are responsible for the current conditions.

    I know more successful people in southern Oregon than those who are leeches, as you would call them. I grew up when the mills were booming and the economy showed it. The people who are there, are the ones who have tried to stick it out, and the transplants who brought the liberal attitudes in with them. Most people I know, want the government to go away and leave them alone, the federal government, in particular.

    I am well aware that nothing is free, but I also don't think that my mother, who owns her property outright, should have to continue to pay rent to the state for the privilege of living in a place she already owns. It's a scam.

    I am not advocating lawlessness, what I'm saying is that if a tax is voted down, then what right does the crooked little county have to run away to the state like a child with hurt feelings, and have them just shove it down the throats of the majority? Zip, zero, zilch.

    The recklessness comes from the abuses of power and authority in the government, and the people are forced to just go along for the ride.
     
  7. PDXoriginal

    PDXoriginal PNW Well-Known Member

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    It's not a scam, law enforcement isn't free; arresting, jailing, and prosecuting criminals are not free. Maintaining basic infrastructure is not free. Basic services are not a scam, Building bikes lanes are... but that is a liberal Portland problem. Nor are basic services FREE, they have to be paid for some how. We're talking about fundamental basic services. Living within your means is one thing, but they don't even have the means.

    I own my property outright, but I still pay property taxes on it and have no problem doing so, you know why? Because I know that money is going to services that I actually get value from. If somebody breaks into my home, I know I will have law enforcement respond within a reasonable time.

    While I am not a fan of big brother or a nanny state, there really is a point where people are too stupid to take care of themselves which is what we have here. People too stupid to realize they have to pay their fair share for basic public safety services.

    It's like giving a mentally challenged person their SSI check and throwing them into a candy store. They'll waste it all on candy and when it comes time to buy real food they won't have money or any sense what to do to provide for them self.

    I'm sorry your mother has to pay her fair share (like everyone else), but please don't whine when a felon is released from jail, because they didn't have the money to house him, breaks into your mother's home and hopefully just rapes and not murder her.

    Taxes are a necessary part of life. It's not something you can just stop paying, because you don't agree with it or feel you already paid your fair share and think everything will continue on perfecto with no problems.
     
    Sling Blade and (deleted member) like this.
  8. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    if they didn't give them the hilton instead of the tent city that sheriff joe is giving them in Az. then maybe they would haver the money to keep them in jail, but they live better in jail then most the people paying taxes.
     
  9. PDXoriginal

    PDXoriginal PNW Well-Known Member

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    Seriously people, pull your heads out of your butts. They don't house them in the hilton. It's a concrete cell with a un comfortable foam cushion on a concrete slab, it's too cold in the winter, too hot in the summer. They are fed the bare nutrition basic human rights provide which these counties can't even afford the peanut butter & jelly sandwiches.
     
  10. Frankenrifle

    Frankenrifle Clatskanie Active Member

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    I pay my property taxes. I live in a rural area. My county pays sane amounts of taxes for fire and police services. I have no confidence on a police response in a timely manner. They will either be bagging me or a bad guy when they eventually show up.
     
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  11. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    :funnypoint::rofl1:
     
  12. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    Usually the laws that are being enforced are silly and used to bully the public. The public has been browbeaten into believing that we need to be protected, although the supreme court has said otherwise. To me that is a scam. Waiting to ticket people for not wearing a seatbelt, or for driving 27 in a 25 is pretty important stuff. How about making laws in a county prohibiting the open carry of firearms? Yup, a scam to make money and harass the public. Oh, and I'd like to see that reasonable time, you think LE is going to respond to your break in...good luck.

    As far as people being to stupid to take care of themselves, or unable to manage their SSI check, or any money for that matter...Well that's what natural selection is all about. Squander the money, starve. No longer a burden to society. That survival of the fittest thing needs to make a serious comeback.

    If they break into my mom's house, they'll be shot. And then my brother will be promptly across the field to shoot them again.

    As far as jails go...Yeah, cable TV, recreation rooms, weight sets. I don't "whine" when a felon or any other criminal is let out. I do however feel that we house way too many people. The life sentence garbage needs to go the hell away. If an individual has received a life sentence, they have forfeit their right to life, as far as I'm concerned. The last money to be spent on that person should be the money for the rope, electricity, injection, or bullet that affirms that forfeiture of said right to life.

    I know that's too harsh for our fragile little sensibilities, so what old Joe does in AZ would work too. Screw them, live outside. And if someone is convicted of a crime, and sent to prison, too bad for them, they lost their basic human rights when they chose to break the laws.

    This has gotten way off topic. The fact of the matter is this: Josephine County is a crooked county, with crooked leaders. The people there are good people who dont want to pay more taxes and the county needs to learn to manage their funds better, period.
     
    Mountainman and (deleted member) like this.
  13. Black Dog

    Black Dog Eagle Creek Or Active Member

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    I'm not sure about pulling my head out. But when I lived in Milwaukie Or. I had a Clackamas County Deputy that lived by me. One day he said he was really P.O.ed that they had to have a T.V. for every 10 inmates? Now that I live in Tillamook County I get to see the inmates getting free Eye Glasses and Dental work. When I was camping in Baker County the inmate work crew was in the campground. At lunch time each inmate was given a lunch sack that was just for him and a big cooler full of different kinds of drinks. And we wonder where all the TAX money goes?
     
  14. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Sometimes crime can pay, even on death row, if you're in need of a new kidney.

    Thanks to the state of Oregon, a law-abiding citizen in need of a kidney transplant may have to die so that death-row prisoner Horacio Alberto Reyes-Camarena can live.

    Reyes-Camarena, 47, has been on Oregon's death row since 1996, when he was convicted of repeatedly stabbing 32- and 18-year-old sisters he met in a farm-labor camp. The older woman survived 17 stab wounds to testify against him.

    Every year, as Reyes-Camarena appeals his conviction, Oregon — which is struggling through budget cuts and having a tough time providing a basic education for its children and health care for its poorer citizens — pays a reported $121,000 a year to keep Reyes-Camarena on dialysis. Last month, his prison doctor determined he was a good candidate for a kidney transplant.

    With the state funding his medical care, Reyes-Camarena could be placed on a transplant waiting list ahead of others who did not commit any crimes and become the state's first death-row inmate to receive an organ transplant.That has outraged crime victim advocates, who cannot understand how the justice system can "reward" convicted murderers at the expense of innocent patients.

    "There's no doubt — there's no debate — that people have lost their lives while murderers have received transplants," said Dudley Sharp, resource director of Justice For All, a Houston-based victims' rights group that supports the death penalty.

    "It is unconscionable that we would put those who have not contributed anything to society but have cost society millions of dollars ahead of hardworking citizens that are not even on the list [for transplants] because they can't afford the insurance," Sharp said. "It's not fair and studies need to be done, and it's something our state legislatures need to think about."

    Legal and Medical Conundrum

    In 1976, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that prisoners were entitled to the same medical and dental treatment as everyone else in their community. Prisons that withhold necessary care from inmates can be held liable for violating constitutional bans against cruel and unusual punishment.

    But critics have argued that efforts to ensure prisoner rights have compromised the lives of law-abiding taxpayers who are paying for inmates' medical bills. It has posed a conundrum for law enforcement officials, who must punish the convicted and ensure their care behind bars.

    "We in Oregon provide very high level of health care for all our prisoners, whether they are on death row or not. We take better care of our prisoners than deserving poor people," said Joshua Marquis, district attorney for Oregon's Clatsop County.

    "We really do have to provide for their [prisoners'] care; we are legally bound. So it's more of a moral issue than a legal one," he said. "Personally, I find it abhorrent that someone like Mr. Reyes-Camarena could receive a transplant before anybody who is more deserving."

    ABC News
     
  15. Benny503

    Benny503 Grants Pass Well-Known Member

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    Really? Really? When were you in jail?
     
  16. Benny503

    Benny503 Grants Pass Well-Known Member

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    They raped your wife and molest your daughter and you still want tax payers pay for their food? You have the balls to tell that straight up to their victims face?
     
  17. nastybynature

    nastybynature ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Active Member

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    A good example of this is the Columbia River Crossing boondoggle. Light rail has been voted down twice in Clark County and now there is a good chance it will still happen if TPTB have their way.

    Don't even get me started.....

    My inlaws live in Curry County and are far from welfare leeches as PDXoriginal talks about. They pay their sizable chunk of property taxes and you (PDXoriginal) are saying they are less deserving of local law enforcement because the County has gone bankrupt? What about when there is mismanagement of funds involved with the revenue they do collect? If you think paying your fair share of property taxes will make the difference on LEO's responding "within a reasonable time", than all I can say is good luck with that.
     
  18. nehalemguy

    nehalemguy Vernonia Well-Known Member

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    The idea of an imposed income tax in either of those counties will go over like the proverbial turd in the punch bowl. They are already in a state of tax rebellion (especially Curry County) and this proposed solution will only fuel the fire.

    What many county residents WANT is for our Congressional representatives to get off their collective asses and loosen timber harvest restrictions so that they can again rely on the resources that they have.

    E
     
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  19. LogicBomb

    LogicBomb Grants Pass Active Member

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    it aint only timber...southern Oregon is also VERY rich in minerals like gold copper chromium various metals from the platinum groups including some that are found NOWHERE else in the world.... we are sitting on a feast here and we are all starving to death
     
  20. Benny503

    Benny503 Grants Pass Well-Known Member

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    Damn those hippies that came ruined the SO and left these counties