Johnny's Reloading Bench Review of the Frankford Armory M-Press

3MTA3 · Nov 3, 2021

This is part one released on Halloween. Pretty informative if you are considering one. It's a good overview of the mechanical aspects and later reloading performance compared to reloads he just did on another press. I like the line where he is removing the C clips and says "All I have are screwdrivers and bandaids".

arakboss · Nov 3, 2021

3MTA3 said:
This is part one released on Halloween. Pretty informative if you are considering one. It's a good overview of the mechanical aspects and later reloading performance compared to reloads he just did on another press. I like the line where he is removing the C clips and says "All I have are screwdrivers and bandaids".

I love his channel. Seems like a regular guy.

P7M13 · Nov 3, 2021

Excellent video. Thanks for posting.
Some guys drone on their videos and I'll turn them off. His chatter is informative and funny.

3MTA3 · Nov 13, 2021

Video Part 2 including observations about design and execution compared to the Co-Ax as well as some hacks. One of the best hacks is to use the universal shell holder to hold a standard type in order to allow clearance for certain dies as well as using standard rings to replace the die holders.

Harold Demes on M-Press problems and fixes. My take away is that FA tried to design this for minimal work after casting/stamping, and while it works it can be greatly improved with a bit of effort. If I purchased one I would likely go through these improvements before my first round.

osprey · Nov 13, 2021

After some monkeying around with measuring ammo run out and testing accuracy at different amounts of run out, I have concluded a few things. A coaxial style press is not needed to make ammo with low run out, most presses are perfectly capable of making ammo with less than .004" ro. Excessive ro usually comes from the dies used, not the press. I don't think the vast majority of shooters can demonstrate a measurable difference in group size in ammo with little or no ro and ammo with under .005" ro, all other parameters being equal. But hey I did buy a Mec single stage press with a floating shellholder design in my quest for lower ro #'s. Although it really did not make a conclusive difference in my ro #'s, it is a fantastic press and I wanted another single stage press for the bench. Personally I would not waste my money on one of the coaxial designs as money is better spent on dies that make ammo with low ro. I am also a big fan of Johnny's channel.

P7M13 · Nov 13, 2021

osprey said:
Personally I would not waste my money on one of the coaxial designs as money is better spent on dies that make ammo with low ro.

I agree that you can produce quality ammo on any press that is not wore out beyond functionality.
Regarding dies, that itself is open to question. I think it was Ultimate Reloader who did the R.O. tests on die sets (cannot remember, too lazy to look up).
Lee dies consistently produced good runout.
IMO, it's in the technique more than anything else. The best thing I did, back on an RCBS Jr press, was to slow down the movement of the ram. I may be bored sizing and depriming cases, but the brass responds differently based on the timing of the forces. Slow and steady, better consistency.
Still do things slowly today, even though I'm on a Co-Ax now. Same with the Dillon. I'm not in a rush to see how many rounds I can crank out in an hour.
Slow -- steady -- smooth....

3MTA3 · Nov 13, 2021

P7M13 said:
I agree that you can produce quality ammo on any press that is not wore out beyond functionality.
Regarding dies, that itself is open to question. I think it was Ultimate Reloader who did the R.O. tests on die sets (cannot remember, too lazy to look up).
Lee dies consistently produced good runout.
IMO, it's in the technique more than anything else. The best thing I did, back on an RCBS Jr press, was to slow down the movement of the ram. I may be bored sizing and depriming cases, but the brass responds differently based on the timing of the forces. Slow and steady, better consistency.
Still do things slowly today, even though I'm on a Co-Ax now. Same with the Dillon. I'm not in a rush to see how many rounds I can crank out in an hour.
Slow -- steady -- smooth....

Consistency = repeatability = accuracy

IMO the style of press isn't as significant as it's execution. @osprey makes a great point about the ability of the typical shooter to realize the difference in best accuracy between presses all things being equal. Too much of the time we forget that no matter how good the tool we use, our proficiency is usually the limiting factor.

P7M13 · Nov 13, 2021

3MTA3 said:
Consistency = repeatability = accuracy

IMO the style of press isn't as significant as it's execution. @osprey makes a great point about the ability of the typical shooter to realize the difference in best accuracy between presses all things being equal. Too much of the time we forget that no matter how good the tool we use, our proficiency is usually the limiting factor.

Completely agree

osprey · Nov 13, 2021

Having the tool to measure ro is the right step to measure where and what is inducing your run out along the process. sizing dies were the biggest culprit in my testing and the brand of die was not really a factor.

3MTA3 · Nov 13, 2021

osprey said:
Having the tool to measure ro is the right step to measure where and what is inducing your run out along the process. sizing dies were the biggest culprit in my testing and the brand of die was not really a factor.

Honestly, the measurement process is the biggest thing I've learned from this channel. I'd also assumed that all dies were pretty much the same, the only differences being materials, finishing, and features. Had no idea there was so much variability.

osprey · Nov 13, 2021

3MTA3 said:
Honestly, the measurement process is the biggest thing I've learned from this channel. I'd also assumed that all dies were pretty much the same, the only differences being materials, finishing, and features. Had no idea there was so much variability.

I agree. While low run out may not be the end all in accuracy it certainly can play a part with other variables to to make inconsistent/less accurate ammo. It is kind of like a tolerance stacking effect where it is not necessarily one facet that dooms potential accuracy, but the addition of several other adverse variables to all work together to conspire against those bug hole groups.

Caveman Jim · Nov 13, 2021

osprey said:
Having the tool to measure ro is the right step to measure where and what is inducing your run out along the process. sizing dies were the biggest culprit in my testing and the brand of die was not really a factor.

I use a Sinclair Concentricity gauge to check run out and I have to say that I'm pleasantly surprised that my loads seem to be within tolerance of any factory ammunition I have checked on .223/5.56 & 300BLK.
I do all rifle resizing on my 40 year old RCBS RS press because I like the cam over feature. I clean and lube it before a 500+ round session, religiously. I rarely resize .223/5.56 in batches less than 4-500.