Jesus rifles?

[Anoobie Knewberton 47]

While these markings may be blasphemous, I'd be willing to buy a few very cheap military surplus ACOGs once they are deemed inappropriate for military use. Or NIB direct from Trijicon once the military refuses to purchase any more w/ these markings.

 

[buyamonkey]

They probably should have just kept that as part of a model or serial number and let it be a mystery that it just happens to correspond with a bible verse. It puts them in a potentially bad place with the military contract. They will probably need to decide whether or not they are willing to take that script off of their sights or not and Religious convictions VS. 100 million+ dollars in contracts is not something I'd want to decide on.

I have to agree, I'll be keeping an eye out for some Army surplus ACOGs.

Eddie

 

[TangoFoxtrot]

There is nothing blasphemous about Bible quotes, or wearing crosses, or putting a cross on your shield or sword. The suggestion that it is blasphemous is in fact the blasphemous act.

I think there are people pretending to be Christians on this site.

 

[ZachS]

There is nothing blasphemous about Bible quotes, or wearing crosses, or putting a cross on your shield or sword. The suggestion that it is blasphemous is in fact the blasphemous act.

I think there are people pretending to be Christians on this site.

You sure this isn't an issue that reasonable Christians can disagree on?!?!?

 

[clearconscience]

That is kinda wrong, I mean I would love it. However, in the ideals of why were over there and the mission we were fighting it does give the taliban/terrorists more propaganda to spend their message of hate. Especially when you have an Iraqi holding the gun in that picture. Right message, wrong application.

 

[86-0134]

I'd be willing to buy a few very cheap military surplus ACOGs once they are deemed inappropriate for military use. Or NIB direct from Trijicon once the military refuses to purchase any more w/ these markings.

yeah buddy!! good call!!

 

[Maxfield]

Also once intertwined, the state can have a bad effect on religion and religion can have a bad effect on the state. The Founding Fathers did not want their new republic to repeat these mistakes, that's why there is a separation between church and state.

Outrider, forgive me for highlighting in bold the above sentence in your post, however; not much else need be said.

There is no separation of church and state in the USA. The state is simply prevented from favoring one religion over another.

TangoFoxtrot is right.

If you actually read the Constitution you will find that the closest thing to a "separation of church and state" (a phrase often cited as justification for religious persecution) is this:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

This means that things like opening legislative sessions with prayer, or having "In God We Trust" on our money are perfectly legal because: There is no such thing as a separation of church and state in the United States.

However, things like starting an official church of the U.S. or shutting down synagogues, are expressly forbidden by the Constitution.

/rant

Back on topic:

As a Christian I don't necessarily think that putting Bible verses on military gear is blasphemous, but I do think that issuing gear with said verses is totally out of line.

It is one thing for Trijicon to do that with their civilian models, more power to them, but doing it on gear that a soldier has to use whether or not he is a Christian makes the verses meaningless and devalues Christianity, IMHO.

Also, I seriously doubt that no one in the Army/DOD did not know about this when the contracts were awarded.

-Max

 

[Maxfield]

I love it..it will just piss off all the appropriate people. Nothing but win. Id love to have Jesus' AR. Gotta get me one! If I were in the military, it would be deeply satisfying killing a soldier of Allah with a Jesus gun.

I can't believe I just read this.

Wow...

 

[Gunner3456]

I can't believe I just read this.

Wow...

You didn't know you could read? Surprised ya, did it?

Naw, kidding. I agree with your post above. The constitution prohibits the government, almost always. It's there to limit the powers of government to control the states and the people. It prohibits the government from prohibiting the free exercise of religion, and it prohibits the government from establishing an official government religion. Nowhere is the "separation of church and state" mentioned.

I also agree that this was a poor place to slip in Christian (or any other religious) quotes.

 

[no time]

For those who think it's a great idea that tends to be because you haven't had someone else's religion imposed on you. Being in the majority allows you to think in certain ways that you would never do if you were in the minority. -If your optic contained codes for passages from the Koran/Quran, how many of you would still be in love with a manufacturer of gear for the military proselytizing his beliefs about Islam on the gear you were issued? What if it was some scripture from another religion that claimed any user of the gear as a convert to their faith, would you still think it was great to have it on your gear? Probably not.

Thanks Outrider, it could not have been said better.

 

[Trlsmn]

 

[Bark]

If this was standard issue equipment that the individual soldier had no choice of, I could see their point. I am a devout Christian, but would never tell anyone they must carry a Christian symbol or reference that implied what they believed. It should be the individuals choice to how they affiliate themselves. If the choice is available between one with the reference and one without, I wouldn't call it tasteless any more than allowing someone to reference their religious affiliation on their dog tag. If there is no choice, then I agree, it should be removed.



I don't think that Jesus rejoices at the death of those who don't believe in Him, so I wouldn't either. In fact, I would say the opposite is true. If I was there, I would do what I had to do to protect my fellow soldiers and country, but I would never find pleasure in the death of anyone, especially an unbeliever.

Just my 0.02.

+1 Thank you, you said exactly what I was thinking.

 

[MountainBear]

The fact is that as far as I can tell, their product is still one of the best, if not the best product available that fits its niche. Until someone comes up with something that challenges the ACOG, I imagine Trijicon can do pretty much what it likes.

As for the debate on the separation of church and state, it is not in the Constitution as many people falsely claim. While there is a clause regarding the state establishing an official religion, there is nothing further. More of the argument comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson referencing the subject. Do a little research, you'll find yourself better informed than 95% of the general population and 99% of the politicians in this country on the subject.

 

[PMKN_PI]

99% of the politicians in this country on the subject.

Oh, they are informed, they are just revisionist historians and Constitution shredders.

 

[MountainBear]

Oh, they are informed, they are just revisionist historians and Constitution shredders.

Honestly I think they prefer to remain blissfully ignorant on things. Look at the last several pieces of major legislation PUSHED through. They put them through so fast that they couldn't possibly have had time to read them through. Like I said, blissfully unaware...

 

[GED]

Your post reminded me of something I posted on another forum in answer to the question What Would Jesus Carry?:


I think Jesus might carry a Sig Sauer. Sigs are favored by law enforcement worldwide and elite units like the Navy SEALs(Lars Larson, by the way, also carries a Sig; a P239 Two Tone). Sigs are very reliable, easy to strip and clean but do need to be kept well lubricated.

I seriously don't think Jesus would want to kill anybody, even if attacked. He would probably just want to fire off a warning shot or two or at the very worst just slightly wound His assailant.

Therefore, because "stopping power" would not be an important factor for Him, He would probably want a Sig that shoots a lower caliber round; a .380ACP or even a 22LR. My best guess is that He'd go for the Sig P238, the P232 or the Mosquito which fires the 22LR.

Now on to some carry options.

I have no idea what Christ would be wearing should He decide to descend from heaven. If He wears traditional garb circa 32 AD; flowing robes, etc., He'd have a myriad of CC options on the various areas of His Body because this type of clothing of course conceals so much.

But if He chooses to wear modern clothing there are only two real-and very popular choices: the inside waste band holster(IWB) or the outside waste band holster(OWB).

If He prefers wearing His shirts tucked in, He'd probably go for the IWB holster. If He's a gentleman of a more casual bent, He'd probably prefer an OWB worn with His shirts untucked. I can easily imagine Him, for example, wearing an OWB with a hoodie.

As with all concealed carry issues, much depends on where exactly Jesus decides to first bless us with His Presence. If He lands here in Multnomah County, He will need to take a CC permit training course, then apply for a CC permit, which includes being finger printed and a waiting period while a background check is performed before He actually receives His permit.

Because He tends to be law abiding though I don't think He'll have any problem with our CC laws.

 

[MarkSBG]

I seriously don’t think Jesus would want to kill anybody, even if attacked. He would probably just want to fire off a warning shot or two or at the very worst just slightly wound His assailant.

When he comes again, he will come in power and there will be no need for him to defend himself. Even if he was vulnerable, he already died once for the guy, why would he try to stop it the second time?

 

[Tactical SS]

That sounds like a company I want to support. Think I'll go buy some new sights.

x2!

 

[Bubba Rogowski]

That is kinda wrong, I mean I would love it. However, in the ideals of why were over there and the mission we were fighting it does give the taliban/terrorists more propaganda to spend their message of hate. Especially when you have an Iraqi holding the gun in that picture. Right message, wrong application.

Exactly. Individual soldiers can put whatever they want on their person, within regs. But having a standard-issue thing with scripture on it really does fuel the fire for people who think our intervention in the "sandbox" is a crusade.

Speaking of regs, the reg in question is about proselytizing, and I don't think carrying a gun with a 4 character scripture reference through a neighborhood fits the definition ("the act of attempting to convert people to another opinion and, particularly, another religion").

That said, it looks really bad when we are trying to set up a government in Muslim nations and convince them to get on board with it. Guns with Christian stuff on them will piss people of, add fuel to the fiery rhetoric of the radical imams, and might just convince one more schmuck that he would liek to take his chot at those 72 virgins. Look at the Jordanian doctor who just killed those Agency guys, using his unique access to hit us really hard. Somebody convinced him, a CIA asset, to turn. This kind of crap could help convince the next one.

And to finish on something we can all agree on, I would love a cheap, used ACOG. It could say "Hare Krisha" on the side for all I care.

 

[Hawaiian]

Just saw this on the nightly news so I googled it. I have always been an Eotech guy, but I just might change to Trijicon. I don't see what the fuss is about. After all, the money Trijicon received for these did have "In God We Trust." on it.
News Article.