Japan Nuclear Reactor Explosion - pass the salt please?

[trainsktg]

Reality check.. not one in 20 members of this site even have PI tabs, much less further preps. I know a lot of gunners out here and most are clueless about the subjects we are discussing.. but many can tell you what the latest football scores are

You got that right, Sir.

Keith

 

[The B]

the big, fissile material-ejecting explosion that occurred at chernobyl was caused by an excursion- a small nuclear detonation, essentially. that cannot happen at fukishima, as the reaction was terminated days ago. the material cannot re-fission itself- it'll just burn if it gets too hot.

the hydrogen explosions they're experiencing at fukushima are not ejecting any fissile material- they're just making it harder to keep the cores cool.

 

[MA Duce]

This is the first good news in days...from Reuters:

FUKUSHIMA, Japan -- A nearly completed new power line could restore cooling systems in Japan's tsunami-crippled nuclear power plant, its operator said Thursday, raising some hope of easing the crisis that has threatened a meltdown and already spawned dangerous radiation surges.

 

[gunslinger1911]

How much radiation did we suffer from being down wind when we bombed hiroshima and nagasaki?

Anyone? I wasn't around then...seems like it couldve been bad...dunno

 

[EZLivin]

... I know a lot of gunners out here and most are clueless about the subjects we are discussing.. but many can tell you what the latest football scores are...

We always like to think our particular group (whatever it may be) is more savvy than the general population. The fact is the good ole bell curve is applicable to any group. On any given subject some are extremely knowledgeable, most have an average amount of knowledge, and a whole bunch are just plain clueless. I know very little about nuke plants (and nothing about football scores) so I certainly appreciate those with knowledge (of nuke plants, not football scores) sharing what they know.

 

[BearAspen]

I forget where I saw the headline (didn't have time to read it)... Drudge or Mynorthwest.com.. But it mentioned that maybe even the bigger threat would be all the ships/shipping containers and cargo being sent over here from Japan with radioactive particles all over them. I am guessing they are worried they might not catch them all, load them on trucks, and "spread the wealth" potentially anywhere? Can radioactive dust be transferred from object to object to object virtually indefinitely until human contact/ingestion?

It is great to come to a place with level headed conversation and explanation. Kudos ya'll. I can't take the media anymore. What a bunch of sensationalized garbage. Keith, be sure to at least give us one last post to tell us when (if) we need to gas up and head out. Hahaha.

 

[The B]

Can radioactive dust be transferred from object to object to object virtually indefinitely until human contact/ingestion?

straight answer- yes. but how much of that contamination is going to reach YOU? not much, if any. by the time the ship makes it across the pacific, it'll already be pretty damn clean- wind and rain will wash away the vast majority of radioactive smoke dust.. then once it's in port, containers are unloaded, put on trucks or trains, and subjected to more wind and rain.. then taken to distribution centers, where the as-of-yet uncontaminated goods inside are offloaded into warehouses, unpackaged, and then put on trucks headed to your local Fred Meyer, Safeway, etc... i'd think it'd be extremely unlikely that any products you buy will have any measurable amount of contamination. and how many products on the american market come from japan anyway?

 

[trainsktg]

Keith, be sure to at least give us one last post to tell us when (if) we need to gas up and head out. Hahaha.

Actually, within a week, my family and I are taking the old tenement-on-wheels to the East Coast.

Keith (We've been planning this for months. Honest! )

 

[el gringo loco]

I understand the fear of things one doesn't understand. I feel the same way whenever someone tells me that Sarah Palin would make a good president or that they listen to and believe Glenn Beck. However, I do know a thing or two about nuclear power and, like trainsktg, I am not worried about this nuclear accident affecting the west coast. Trainsktg appears to have a lot more experience in the field than I, but everything he has written is in line with my understanding of the situation. To qualify my opinion: I no longer work in the nuclear field, but I am a former Navy nuke and have a BS in nuclear engineering.

I would point out that the constant references to Chernobyl are like comparing apples to oranges. As is comparing This incident to Hiroshima or Nagasaki. This current incident involves several reactors with secondary containment. Neither Chernobyl nor those two cities in Japan were inside of a building designed to contain radioactive contamination. Even if the containment buildings are badly damaged and the reactor vessel failed completely, and the cores melted in the worst possible way, the containment buildings and the damaged vessel would still provide a great deal of containment. There is no mechanism that I can think of that would be able to disperse contamination on the same level that was seen in the Ukraine in 1986 or from the detonation of two nuclear devices.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

We always like to think our particular group (whatever it may be) is more savvy than the general population. The fact is the good ole bell curve is applicable to any group. On any given subject some are extremely knowledgeable, most have an average amount of knowledge, and a whole bunch are just plain clueless. I know very little about nuke plants (and nothing about football scores) so I certainly appreciate those with knowledge (of nuke plants, not football scores) sharing what they know.

This is why I am posting and I hope the rest of us have the same motive. I am no expert but I do have a science degree, (computer science) I am 50 and used to work for nuclear power entity, SMUD in Sacramento, CA. They had many close calls before the plant was finally shut down

Here's the latest on the Japan and possible US fallout .. hopefully it will miss the PNW. My personal dosimeter will be deployed until the entire scenario is finished, however

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/science/17plume.html?_r=1

 

[deadeye]

Is there ONE alarmist here who either is/was/or had been in a previous life a fully trained and qualified reactor operator, nuclear engineer or other specialist with specific training in the field of nuclear operations, please speak up?

Otherwise, please consider the advice of this reactor operator and nuclear engineer and calm the F down until this situation resolves itself more fully.

Keith

Well I was in the control room at Trojan Nuclear plant so I must be an expert, right......... No worries here,gonna die someday and not scared of that day myself. I feel bad for the people still in the area that most likely have no clue whats really going on and are still in shock over it all.

 

[trainsktg]

What really chapped my rear last night was a linked article on Drudge with the headline..."US officials alarmed over Japanese handling of crisis.." Do these unnamed US officials actually believe that the US would be better at concurrently handling an earthquake, tsunami, the deaths of at least 10,000, the displacement of hundreds of thousands, and a major nuclear incident...all topped off with an extra dose of freezing weather...ANY BETTER than the Japanese are?

Keith

 

[Sodbuster]

Two words -- "New Orleans". We already have our proof of concept. Not only would our own people be our worst enemies but the government would be sure to disarm EVERYBODY to make sure we are all "safe" (yeah, right).

What really chapped my rear last night was a linked article on Drudge with the headline..."US officials alarmed over Japanese handling of crisis.." Do these unnamed US officials actually believe that the US would be better at concurrently handling an earthquake, tsunami, the deaths of at least 10,000, the displacement of hundreds of thousands, and a major nuclear incident...all topped off with an extra dose of freezing weather...ANY BETTER than the Japanese are?

Keith

 

[Just Jim]

So it's come to the point where you say something or just let things happen Guess we will just let it play out.

jj

 

[gunslinger1911]

Im just curious about the different kinds of radiation exposure created by reactor meltdownand nuclear bombs...it seems to me that a bomb going off would be a lot more detrimental to us on the west coast because of the sheer height from a blast like that...they didn't teach us about that stuff in school...seems to me that the effect of a plant meltdown would be alot more isolated...

 

[Sodbuster]

Im just curious about the different kinds of radiation exposure created by reactor meltdownand nuclear bombs...it seems to me that a bomb going off would be a lot more detrimental to us on the west coast because of the sheer height from a blast like that...they didn't teach us about that stuff in school...seems to me that the effect of a plant meltdown would be alot more isolated...

Little bit of both. But a bomb going off in Japan would not have radiation that would affect the west coast. Singularly a nuclear bomb is very local with fallout spreading over a larger area as it falls from the sky. Immediate vicinity of a bomb is not a good place to be. 15 miles and you still have a very good chance of dying from radiation exposure. Lot of people in Hiroshima died when the rain fell shortly after the bomb went off and they drank the water (filled with radioactive material). It's with multiple bombs that you have the big spread of waste and nuclear winter potential.

You can check on-line and download free versions of the old Civil-Defense manuals from the 50's/60's about atom bomb blasts.

But as far as the west coast being affected, you might see a slightly higher dose of daily radiation but nothing more than that. Don't forget, it wasn't all that long ago that France, the US, and UK tested their bombs on Pacific islands. Check out the National Geo article on Bikini Atoll from a few years back. Ground locally at Bikini is still filled with cesium and other heavy nasties, but the lagoon is filled with fish and other life. The number of bombs exploded at that site were more than a few. And, besides a few people in Venice Beach and 'Frisco, you don't see any strange life forms on the west coast.

Sod

 

[trainsktg]

Here is the latest assessment of the reactor integrity at Daiichi:

<broken link removed>

Keith

 

[rdt]

so tepco said there is a possibility of the fuel in fuel pond 4 going critical again. . . the article here mentions this could happen if they started packing rods more densely than per original specs, using boron and boric acid to soak up the excess neutrons. not trying to panic, just curious if this would create the "excursion" that happened in 86?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12762608

 

[trainsktg]

so tepco said there is a possibility of the fuel in fuel pond 4 going critical again. . . the article here mentions this could happen if they started packing rods more densely than per original specs, using boron and boric acid to soak up the excess neutrons. not trying to panic, just curious if this would create the "excursion" that happened in 86?

BBC News - Surprise &#039;critical&#039; warning raises nuclear fears

It IS possible for these rods to go critical again, but with the boronated water, highly unlikely. But understand...the terms subcritical, critical and supercritical are not the scary things that they sound like. When a reactor is 'critical', all it means is that power output is neither increasing nor decreasing. Supercritical means that power output is increasing. Subcritical means that power output is decreasing. Very different than what the term conjures up.

Another Chernobyl event is impossible. In short, Chernobyl could not have been designed to explode any better if they had done so intentionally. Everything was against it.

Keith

 

[deadeye]

We can stop worrying now the great Obama has just announced we have nothing to worry about..............