I've built my first AR- now what?

WoodsPlinker · Nov 28, 2019

Goosebrown said:
It you're concerned about over penetration get some defense ammo with drangible rounds.

The video I recommended watching addressed this. Frangible made it through all the walls, it's made to come apart when it hits something hard. This makes it great for shooting steel up close but does nothing for stopping it with drywall.

Seriously worth watching.

mkwerx · Nov 28, 2019

Pandaz3 said:
"Wifey" I thought you were footloose and fancy free in Sequim and Idaho was to be a Hermitage. You must have let your guard down!

Nope. married 12 years going on 13. Been to Sequim, but never lived there. I think there's another guy on here you're thinking of, but I cannot remember his name!

mkwerx · Nov 28, 2019

mkwerx said:
Nope. married 12 years going on 13. Been to Sequim, but never lived there. I think there's another guy on here you're thinking of, but I cannot remember his name!

actually, I think I remember his name... @mjbsequim?

TTSX · Nov 28, 2019

The expensive .223 ammo huh? Have you ever looked at the price of belted magnums? You'd cry at the register

Congrats on the build. I'm sure you'll get years of enjoyment out of it

ron · Nov 28, 2019

9mm guy said:
I have no desire to enter competitions or anything like that. Also I don't really have any friends with whom I go shooting with and share this hobby. That may have something to do with it as well, since this has been something I've been doing by myself as part of a husband and dad duty to protect our family. Maybe I've finally reached the limits of my firearm hobby.

30 years ago I became bored punching holes in paper. I started shooting Rifle Matches. A lot of new shooters are apprehensive of the "Match" word. We are just a bunch of goobers that like to shoot guns. I have met so many great people shooting rifle and pistol matches. I have learned a lot from some of the most honest and good people you will ever want to know. You will find almost everyone is willing to help out a newbie. A good starting match for you would be the Garand match at DRRC Dec. 14. You can shoot your AR. Everything will be shot at 100 yards for this match. They will loan you a rifle (M1 Garand) shooting mat, spotting scope and sell you 30/06 military surplus Ball ammo. Douglas Ridge Rifle Club - Service Rifle Program
Speed Steel, bowling pins, falling plates, IDPA are some fun pistol matches. You live close to TCGC? TCGCI offers a lot of matches every weekend. Great facility largest gun club in this area. You drive in-between ranges. I have shot many rifle and pistol matches there over the last 30 years. Matches are open to the public you do not have to be a member to shoot. On demand a little under stress competition shooting is great training. IMHO

Oregon State Shooting Association

Oregon State Shooting Associaiton (OSSA) OSSA’s organizational objectives are: To promote in every lawful way all types of legal firearms activities in the State of Oregon and raise the general proficiency in the use of firearms. To support the Secon

www.ossa.org

Vintage Military Rifle and Pistol Competition

This is a blog for information relating to Vintage Military Rifle and Pistol competions run in Sherwood, Oregon. This discipline combines all of collecting, fixing and understanding the designs of old weapons, custom reloading/bullet casting, and marksmanship. Many of these old rifles have...

oldrustyguns.blogspot.com

Tri-County Defensive Pistol League

Tri-County Defensive Pistol League, Sherwood, Oregon. 396 likes · 1 talking about this. Tri-County Defensive Pistol League matches are held the first Saturday of each month and every 5th Sunday

www.facebook.com

quneur · Nov 30, 2019

What really got me interested in firearms was bird hunting and skeet shooting. Trying to shoot a moving target from different angles is loads of fun. I would suggest starting with a 20ga as it has less recoil than the 12. Eventually, if you're comfortable in shooting 12ga loads, it will transfer directly to home defense.

Lilhigbee · Nov 30, 2019

mkwerx said:
actually, I think I remember his name... @mjbsequim?

He was @mjbskwim. Moved to Salmon, Idaho and was last on here November of 2017. I always enjoyed his input. No idea what happened to him.

mjbskwim

mkwerx · Nov 30, 2019

Lilhigbee said:
He was @mjbskwim. Moved to Salmon, Idaho and was last on here November of 2017. I always enjoyed his input. No idea what happened to him.

mjbskwim

I enjoyed his posting too. Hope he's doin ok and hasn't moved on to the big gun range in the sky

Mikej · Nov 30, 2019

mkwerx said:
I enjoyed his posting too. Hope he's doin ok and hasn't moved on to the big gun range in the sky

Add me to the missing @mjbskwim too.

titsonritz · Dec 1, 2019

9mm guy said:
What I've realized is practically, I cannot use this firearm for self-defense or home-defense due to it's size

That is a training issue, not a weapon issue. Anyone kicking in my door will be greeted with 5.56 not 9mm.

9mm guy said:
and the fact that I live in a suburb where over-penetration would result in disaster.

That is an incorrect assumption. A properly loaded 5.56 will penetrate less than a 9mm or a shotgun.

Koda · Dec 1, 2019

titsonritz said:
That is an incorrect assumption. A properly loaded 5.56 will penetrate less than a 9mm or a shotgun.

What 556 round would you recommend to avoid over-penetration for suburban home defense?

titsonritz · Dec 1, 2019

Koda said:
What 556 round would you recommend to avoid over-penetration for suburban home defense?

Summarizing Doctor Roberts' choices results in the following list (make sure to read about the importance of barrier penetration just below the list):

If barrier penetration is NOT an important factor AND your rifle can stabilize them (minimum 1:9 twist rate):

Hornady 75gr OTM loads
Nosler 77gr OTM loads
Sierra 77gr SMK loads

If barrier penetration is NOT an important factor AND your rifle can't stabilize the heavy 70+ grain bullets:

Sierra 69gr SMK loads
Hornady 68gr OTM loads
Winchester 64gr JSP (RA223R2)
Federal 64gr TRU (223L)
Hornady 60gr JSP

If your rifle is 1:12 or slower twist rate or can only shoot lighter-weight bullets:

55gr Federal bonded JSP load (LE223T1 or P223T2)
Barnes 55gr TSX/TAC-X
50gr TSX loaded by Black Hills*

If barrier penetration IS an important factor:

62gr Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw (TBBC) bonded JSP (XM556FBIT3)*
64gr Winchester solid base bonded JSP (Q3313/RA556B)*
50gr TSX loaded by Black Hills*
Speer 55 & 64gr Gold Dot JSP (5.56)*
Federal 62gr Mk318 Mod0 (T556TNB1)*
62gr Federal bonded JSP Tactical (LE223T3)
55gr Federal bonded JSP load (Tactical––LE223T1 or identical Premium Rifle––P223T2)
Swift 75gr Scirocco (usually requires 1:7 twist)
60gr Nosler Partition JSP
Remington 62gr bonded JSP
Federal 55gr TSX (T223S)
Speer 55 & 64gr Gold Dot JSP (.223)
Federal 62gr Fusion JSP (Same construction as the Gold Dot)

Loads marked with * are 5.56 loads and indicate preferred loadings

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

5.56 mm Duty Loads

Pandaz3 · Dec 1, 2019

That is a very good list, as indicated within the article, I don't use the 'Best' I use plain 'old 193 55 Grain, I have a lot of experience with it, train with it, have a lot of it.
I would use one of the 'Best' rounds if I had some, but don't believe they are 'that much' better.

titsonritz · Dec 1, 2019

Pandaz3 said:
That is a very good list, as indicated within the article, I don't use the 'Best' I use plain 'old 193 55 Grain, I have a lot of experience with it, train with it, have a lot of it.
I would use one of the 'Best' rounds if I had some, but don't believe they are 'that much' better.

5.56 mm 55 gr M193 Terminal Performance Thoughts

Koda · Dec 1, 2019

titsonritz said:
If barrier penetration is NOT an important factor AND your rifle can stabilize them (minimum 1:9 twist rate):

by "minimum" that means at least or even faster? My bbl is a 1:7 so the first heavier bullet selections should be ideal?
(forgive the newbie question there I dont shoot it much)

In my house, barrier penetration is not an important factor in fact Id prefer not to penetrate any wall. The closest loads I have in inventory is Winchester 64g power point 223 (X223R2) ("soft point" by my definition), and one box of Nosler 60g BT match grade 223 (60013). I dont mind shopping for something better I just dont want to penetrate things, not my concern for home defense but protecting my neighbors is.

Note: my rifle is chambered in 556.

gmerkt · Dec 1, 2019

The trouble with all the bullet loads listed above is they are jacketed. Their designs all take into consideration lethality on impact, not over penetration of urban/suburban building materials. A situation which might result in an unintended casualty. Which is what the OP was concerned with, if I'm not mistaken.

Of course 100% on target impact would be the best way to prevent bullets escaping from a structure. But in defensive shooting, not all bullets may hit home. Someone else mentioned it above, there is the idea of frangible bullets. Made of copper powder held together with a polymer. Definitely not the most damaging bullet on a soft tissue target but disabling or lethal none the less. And when they hit a solid object, they disintegrate. A person doesn't have to be a reloader to have frangible bullet loads. They are made commercially in many calibers, including handgun.

I'd favor a shotgun for home defense over an AR. With low recoil defensive loads. So this may be another new channel for your firearms interest.

Projectile choice is only a small part of thinking about home defense. Bigger consideration is the unknowable, that is, how the situation is going to come down. To be ready for this, there are many other things to think about. Are you even going to be anywhere near your AR when a home invasion occurs? Or are you gonna be in bed asleep when someone chooses to break in? Lots of other stuff to study on in order to be ready for armed defense. Get an outside dog or two, for starts. Early warning system.

titsonritz · Dec 1, 2019

Koda said:
by "minimum" that means at least or even faster? My bbl is a 1:7 so the first heavier bullet selections should be ideal?
(forgive the newbie question there I dont shoot it much)

In my house, barrier penetration is not an important factor in fact Id prefer not to penetrate any wall. The closest loads I have in inventory is Winchester 64g power point 223 (X223R2) ("soft point" by my definition), and one box of Nosler 60g BT match grade 223 (60013). I dont mind shopping for something better I just dont want to penetrate things, not my concern for home defense but protecting my neighbors is.

Note: my rifle is chambered in 556.

Yes, but read the over-penetration caveat.

titsonritz · Dec 1, 2019

gmerkt said:
The trouble with all the bullet loads listed above is they are jacketed. Their designs all take into consideration lethality on impact, not over penetration of urban/suburban building materials. A situation which might result in an unintended casualty. Which is what the OP was concerned with, if I'm not mistaken.

Of course 100% on target impact would be the best way to prevent bullets escaping from a structure. But in defensive shooting, not all bullets may hit home. Someone else mentioned it above, there is the idea of frangible bullets. Made of copper powder held together with a polymer. Definitely not the most damaging bullet on a soft tissue target but disabling or lethal none the less. And when they hit a solid object, they disintegrate. A person doesn't have to be a reloader to have frangible bullet loads. They are made commercially in many calibers, including handgun.

I'd favor a shotgun for home defense over an AR. With low recoil defensive loads. So this may be another new channel for your firearms interest.

Projectile choice is only a small part of thinking about home defense. Bigger consideration is the unknowable, that is, how the situation is going to come down. To be ready for this, there are many other things to think about. Are you even going to be anywhere near your AR when a home invasion occurs? Or are you gonna be in bed asleep when someone chooses to break in? Lots of other stuff to study on in order to be ready for armed defense. Get an outside dog or two, for starts. Early warning system.

Not all are jacketed, some are, some are solid cooper, some are bonded.

Frangible bullet for self defense is lame, they suck at ending fights due to their lack of penetration. Penetration is critical component to stopping bad guys. Their original intended purpose was for special response teams protecting nuclear power and chemical manufacturing plants were penetrating the wrong pipe or control panel makes a bad day for the entire region.

Speaking personally, my AR is no further away than my shotgun and I'd choose my AR for it's precision capability.

Koda · Dec 1, 2019

titsonritz said:
Yes, but read the over-penetration caveat.

there is a lot of reading to cover in both links you shared. I do understand penetration is important to stop a threat but simply dont want to over penetrate walls or barriers. (I have a brick of 556 FMJ that would run thru 2 houses if needed). Although still somewhat skeptical an AR will penetrate less than a pistol, if theres a load I can buy that penetrates less than a typicial pistol round Id like to buy some...