Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

It's ok to sell a rifle across state lines without an FFL.

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by SheepDog223, Apr 6, 2013.

  1. SheepDog223

    SheepDog223 Salem Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,120
    Likes Received:
    193
    NO WAY PAL!


    I had a guy text about a rifle ad I have up. He asked if it was still for sale. I said not to a WA phone number. He said yeah, but rifles are ok. WTF Mr batfe agent first day on the job. I almost fell for that one. :thumbdown: I don't know who this guy was but I told him to leave me alone until he learned the laws.

    Anyway... My point is this. It's just a reminder for most and a must know for the rest. Know your laws if your selling and know the laws if your buying. If your not sure, risk the loss of a sale and find out from a trusted source who knows. Not from a trusted source who doesn't know. There is a difference. I'm not selling to anyone out of state even with an FFL. Just don't want to mess with it.


    Enjoy your day.
     
    ATCclears and (deleted member) like this.
  2. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,042
    Likes Received:
    2,173
  3. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    752
    Anyone who would fall for that...well, Randy Weaver and the Branch Davidians can both testify about how the BATFE works well with others....
     
  4. 1stklass

    1stklass salem oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    517
    Likes Received:
    335
    I know its the law, but i always thought it was funny that we are treated more like Illegal Aliens when we go from Oregon to Washington or vise versa than someone coming over the border packing a bale of marijuana and stopping by the gun store to pick up his "assault weapon" that Obama ordered the dealers down there to sell to the crooks. :huh:
     
  5. aflineman

    aflineman Both South of Eugene and East of Portland. Active Member

    Messages:
    523
    Likes Received:
    122
    Yes there is, but every time I post up a firearm for sale (or trade), I get someone from another state telling me (arguing with me) that it is OK to sell to them face-to face. Even though I clearly state that I will deal with someone from Oregon Only. Some get down right irate about it. Just turns what should be an enjoyable process into a hassle. I do not care what someone thinks the law is (or should be), I deal with Oregon folks only in trades on firearms. My sale (or trade), my rules. And that should be the end of it.
     
  6. trekkerpaul

    trekkerpaul Portland metro Active Member

    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    34
    Well just so everyone knows I called the local Portland BATF regarding a rifle sale from Oregon to Washington and the law that pertains to interstate transfer of a rifle. This transaction was for a friend and not something I was going to be party to. I know what the law says, but wanted to see what BATF would tell. I was told that is was illegal for my friend to drive to Washington to sell his gun, but OK for the Washington resident to drive to Oregon to purchase and pick up. Of course this is wrong for private purchases which require shipping through a FFL.
     
  7. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,593
    Likes Received:
    1,480
    Not sure why you would do that since the actual laws are easily found online, Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons | ATF

    This is very vague. It is NOT illegal (see the link above) IF the transaction is done though and FFL. If the transaction was for anything other then a long gun the buyer would have to use an FFL in his state.

    I am not sure what you mean by "require shipping though an FFL". For interstate shipping it only has to be sent to an FFL. If you wanted to drive your own gun to the buyers FFL that is 100% legal.
     
  8. trekkerpaul

    trekkerpaul Portland metro Active Member

    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    34
    I actually called for another reason when I was looking into getting my own FFL. BATF told me FFL did not have to be involved, which I know isn't true. Sorry semantics regarding FFL; FFL involved in the transfer is what I meant.
     
    Nwcid and (deleted member) like this.
  9. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    4,953
    Its perfectly legal to drive from Oregon to Washington to buy a rifle as long as the transfer takes place through a FFL. As well as the other way around.

    The LONG GUN is transfered to the FFL books and then the FFL transfers it to the buyer after running a BGC.

    I bought a Shotgun through Crossroads Firearms just that way a couple weeks ago I am an Oregon resident the seller was a Washington resident. All perfectly legal and above board.
     
  10. jlprtr

    jlprtr Shoreline, WA New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    2
    Will the Oregon statute below help?



    166.490 Purchase of firearms in certain other states. (1) As used in this section, unless the context requires otherwise:

    (a) “Contiguous state” means California, Idaho, Nevada or Washington.

    (b) “Resident” includes an individual or a corporation or other business entity that maintains a place of business in this state.

    (2) A resident of this state may purchase or otherwise obtain a rifle or shotgun in a contiguous state and receive in this stateor transport into this state such rifle or shotgun, unless the purchase or transfer violates the law of this state, the state in which the purchase or transfer is made or the United States.

    (3) This section does not apply to the purchase, receipt or transportation of rifles and shotguns by federally licensed firearms manufacturers, importers, dealers or collectors.

    (4) This section expires and stands repealed upon the date that section 922(b) (3) of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (18 U.S.C. 922(b) (3)) and regulations pursuant thereto are repealed or rescinded. [1969 c.289 §§1,2,3,4]

    Edited to add: Washington Statutes


    RCW 9.41.122

    Out-of-state purchasing.


    Residents of Washington may purchase rifles and shotguns in a state other than Washington: PROVIDED, That such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, Title IV, Pub. L. 90-351 as administered by the United States secretary of the treasury: AND PROVIDED FURTHER, That such residents are eligible to purchase or possess such weapons in Washington and in the state in which such purchase is made.
     
  11. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,593
    Likes Received:
    1,480
    ^ no that does not help considering you still have to follow federal laws....

    Most of those kind of state laws were written prior to the GCA of 1968 when there was not a federal law about interstate transfer.
     
  12. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    752
    "unless the purchase or transfer violates the law of this state, the state in which the purchase or transfer is made or the United States."

    The catch in the Oregon statute is "or the United States" which has rules that state such a transfer must be made through an FFL. Same sort of thing with WA law, "PROVIDED, That such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968"
     
  13. jlprtr

    jlprtr Shoreline, WA New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    2
    #1) From the link you yourself provided in your post #7:
    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

    #2) Most of those were actually written BECAUSE of GCA of 1968. If you will carefully read Section four in the Oregon statute I posted, you'll see that it will disappear if and when GCA '68 goes away and that the OR statute was put into place in 1969.

    The above is for LONG GUNS ONLY. The federal law concerning interstate transfer of handguns is way different. The fact is, you have responded as if you never had written your post #7.
     
  14. jlprtr

    jlprtr Shoreline, WA New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    2
    :cool:
    GCA '68 covered mail order of firearms. Before it's passage you could order rifles and even handguns out of a department store catalog. that's how Lee Harvey Oswald got his.

    Look folks, I know there is a lot of vagueness and confusion surrounding all this, and in reality I also would go the extra cautious route myself, rather than getting railroaded by any LE agency whatsoever. :D
     
  15. cascadianliberty2012

    cascadianliberty2012 DPR Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    459
    The only time you can ship firearms interstate is when you're not actually doing a possession transfer. For example, while in Pennsylvania last summer, my Grandfather gave me the Nambu T94 that he got when fighting on Okinawa. Since it was "gifted" to me and was mine at that point I needed to get it back to Oregon. There is a loophole in firearm shipping laws that allows a person to ship the weapon without an FFL so long as it is already his. In this case I shipped my gun from myself in Pennsylvania, to myself in Oregon. Completely legal. Had it been meant to go to someone else or had I not addressed it to myself, it would've been illegal. Just to be safe, don't use USPS when shipping weapons... EVER.
     
  16. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,593
    Likes Received:
    1,480
    Yes I understand what that means. The main topic is about a rifle (long gun). You specifically asked if the link you posted helped.

    It did not help since you put section 2 in red that is based on OLD laws and is invalidated by section 4 of the same law you posted. Sections (1), (2) and (3) were written PRIOR to 1968 and in 1969 section (4) was written which "expires and stands repealed upon the date that section" meaning the rest are invalid.

    The law concerning handguns (along with NFA and other since they are not long guns) is not "way different". It is different only in the fact that you can ONLY purchase those within your state of residence.
     
  17. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,593
    Likes Received:
    1,480
    Wow, I wish I knew that the GCA only covered mail order firearms. Would have meant all the other laws from it were not around also. If you are interested here is what the GCA did, The Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618
     
  18. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,593
    Likes Received:
    1,480
    I understand what you mean here but some of your wording is poor.

    You can interstate ship a firearm ANYTIME you like. It either has to be going to yourself OR and FFL.

    Also the LAW that allows you to ship to yourself is NOT a loophole any more then being able to drive 65 (in OR) on the HWY is a loophole. It is simply the law nothing more, nothing less. The "gun show loophole" is NOT a loophole either. It IS the law that allows legal FTF transfers in state per law............
     
    mjbskwim and (deleted member) like this.
  19. Jacurso

    Jacurso Douglas Co. Active Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    52
    Correct....I did the same thing in Nevada last year!
     
    Nwcid and (deleted member) like this.