it keeps getting dumber... more attempts at gun control.

[Partsproduction]

You're still wrong.

Your saying that doesn't make it true, maybe if you say it a thousand times?

Still not true.

You don't answer my point, that though none of our attempts to stop stupid selfish behaviors like murder and theft are 100% effective we still keep doing them because we have no option!

Resistance against stupidity and selfish behavior is not done because it is totally effective, it is done because not doing so is capitulation to stupidity and selfishness.

We have to identify and censure those who do such things or we become part of their stupidity and selfishness.

You can see deep into the heart of every pot smoker by looking at the cartel leaders in Mexico. Every pot smoker knows that he or she is responsible for the chaos and murder going on there, but they still keep smoking.

 

[Trlsmn]

Your saying that doesn't make it true, maybe if you say it a thousand times?

Still not true.

You don't answer my point, that though none of our attempts to stop stupid selfish behaviors like murder and theft are 100% effective we still keep doing them because we have no option!

Resistance against stupidity and selfish behavior is not done because it is totally effective, it is done because not doing so is capitulation to stupidity and selfishness.

We have to identify and censure those who do such things or we become part of their stupidity and selfishness.

You can see deep into the heart of every pot smoker by looking at the cartel leaders in Mexico. Every pot smoker knows that he or she is responsible for the chaos and murder going on there, but they still keep smoking.

Just as every automobile driver is responsible for the wars in the middle east.

 

[BigCat]

Just as every automobile driver is responsible for the wars in the middle east.

They certainly aren't helping the situation.

 

[Minisocks]

The title is kind of an exaggeration. Important bit:

However, the final report differs from the draft in one conspicuous respect. Whereas the draft merely noted that dealers are not required to report multiple sales of long guns, as they are with sales of handguns, the final report flat-out recommends that the BATFE "Work with the Department [of Justice] to explore options for seeking a requirement for reporting multiple sales of long guns."

They're looking to add more metrics to firearms sales on the dealer end. This is probably a response to guys like this.

 

[Partsproduction]

Just as every automobile driver is responsible for the wars in the middle east.

I think possibly driving a car to work involves less selfish indolence than smoking a joint.

I have a friend from high school who has smoked pot ever since we graduated in 1968, his life is a wreck! I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But even worse is when good people trying to live in a Mexican village get killed by gunfire, collateral damage. The people smoking weed did it really, killed those people, indirectly.

But asking a pot smoker to accept responsibility is a waste of time. They should get to hear the screams of people dying when they smoke that stuff.

 

[bnsaibum]

I have a friend from high school who has smoked pot ever since we graduated in 1968, his life is a wreck!

Alcoholism can also create/be the result of a train wreck of a life.

I respect your opinion on the use and abuse of illegal drugs, how do you feel about the legal ones alcohol and tobacco? Would you support the criminalization of alcohol or tobacco consumption? Why?

 

[Chee-to]

I think possibly driving a car to work involves less selfish indolence than smoking a joint.

I have a friend from high school who has smoked pot ever since we graduated in 1968, his life is a wreck! I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But even worse is when good people trying to live in a Mexican village get killed by gunfire, collateral damage. The people smoking weed did it really, killed those people, indirectly.

But asking a pot smoker to accept responsibility is a waste of time. They should get to hear the screams of people dying when they smoke that stuff.

Well, I guess using that logic, it's the federal government's fault people are being murdered in Mexico. You make a great case for legalizing pot......

 

[gehrheart]

Wow, this thread is going in a far different direction than I thought it would.

With all the threads popping up as of late about the pro/anti drug use, I'd think I was on a drug board not a firearms board....

 

[bnsaibum]

Wow, this thread is going in a far different direction than I thought it would.

With all the threads popping up as of late about the pro/anti drug use, I'd think I was on a drug board not a firearms board....

Agreed, but as long as the members of this forum support the 2A they must also support the entire Constitution, whether they agree with the personal applications thereof or not.

It certainly would create a less charged atmosphere if posters would stick strictly to the thread topics.

 

[Partsproduction]

how do you feel about the legal ones alcohol and tobacco? Would you support the criminalization of alcohol or tobacco consumption? Why?

To me those are separate issues, and yes, they also produce tragedy for no useful return. But where do we draw the line? Do we need to draw a line and say "Not beyond this line"? I think we do, and we should stick to it or not make the laws.
The bigger question should be this, should we capitulate when the going gets rough? If people were dying because of illegal trafficking in cigarettes would we want to drop the laws concerning lawful sales of tobacco? Do we just give up when criminals start killing people? There's no backbone in such a society, and laws against anything become meaningless!

 

[Partsproduction]

It certainly would create a less charged atmosphere if posters would stick strictly to the thread topics

When someone states that "The 'War on Drugs' (not to mention the rampant corruption) is fueling the violence in Mexico...and in the US." as if the people smoking that garbage don't bear any responsibility I have to speak up. Every time some whack job with a ponytail in CA tries to legalize pot it gets worse.
My response is very relevant to the threads original post, because responsibility for the violence is being shifted from where it belongs to where it doesn't.

Drug users are responsible for all of it!

 

[Trlsmn]

I think possibly driving a car to work involves less selfish indolence than smoking a joint.

So people dying as a result of drug trade = bad? people dying as a result of petroleum trade = good? I wonder what the dead people would say about your theory that their death as a result of oil is more noble? (providing the dead could talk of course.)

I have a friend from high school who has smoked pot ever since we graduated in 1968, his life is a wreck! I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But even worse is when good people trying to live in a Mexican village get killed by gunfire, collateral damage. The people smoking weed did it really, killed those people, indirectly.

I have a friend that is anti marijuana but is an alcoholic that has lost everything, a nice house, a family and a Porsche and is now homeless.

But asking a pot smoker to accept responsibility is a waste of time. They should get to hear the screams of people dying when they smoke that stuff.

If irresponsible Marijuana smokers were the worst society had to offer this world would be a paradise.

I would also counter that it is the illegality of the drug trade that is killing people in Mexico, when Booze was outlawed people in the Illegal booze trade were killed in the same way. Legalize Pot and the black market goes away.

BTW this view is coming from someone who doesn't smoke pot and rarely drinks booze for that matter.

I feel that people that are anti Pot but are OK with booze are hypocrites. Booze will kill 75,000 people in America this year, that is a far greater number that the total amount of people who have died in all years combined in Mexico as a result of the drug trade.

Do you drink? if you do, do you feel responsible for any of those 75,000 people that will die in the USA this year?


Private Joker: "The dead know only one thing: it's better to be alive" Full Metal Jacket

 

[Partsproduction]

Do you drink? if you do, do you feel responsible for any of those 75,000 people that will die in the USA this year?

I neither drink nor use drugs. What you are doing is called diversion. We aren't talking about alcohol, but yes, as far as I'm concerned it is a bigger problem by far than pot. So, are you saying that you want to legalize pot? Is it possible that shortly after pot is legalized that heroin and cocaine will be legalized?

What you and the OP are doing is shifting responsibility from those who do wrong onto the shoulders of those who are trying to keep this a strong and moral society.

So, again, what about rape? Why not legalize rape? Murder?

Where will it end?

 

[bnsaibum]

people smoking that garbage don't bear any responsibility

They absolutely do bear a measure of responsibility.

responsibility for the violence is being shifted from where it belongs to where it doesn't

The violence does not stem directly from the illegal use and abuse, it comes more directly from the associated illegal trade and turf wars. You obviously have a very strong opinion on this, but bear with me. If the trade was legal and only the use was illegal, the violence (competition) would move from the places of trade (commerce) to the homes and places of the users.

Drug users are responsible for all of it!

:huh:

 

[HahnsXD]

So, again, what about rape? Why not legalize rape? Murder?

Because using illegal drugs is exactly the same as rape

Are you serious? Are you sure you weren't high when you wrote that :huh:

And I'll say it again, prohibition worked so well, didn't it?

 

[bnsaibum]

I neither drink nor use drugs.

I, for one, applaud your personal choices. I wish it were so that all people in our country chose this for themselves.

So, again, what about rape? Why not legalize rape? Murder?

These are crimes of violence against another person. They are in direct conflict with another person's liberty. That is a completely different topic and very indirectly connected to the discussion.

 

[Trlsmn]

I neither drink nor use drugs. What you are doing is called diversion. We aren't talking about alcohol, but yes, as far as I'm concerned it is a bigger problem by far than pot.

So, are you saying that you want to legalize pot?

Yes

Is it possible that shortly after pot is legalized that heroin and cocaine will be legalized?

The simple and short answer is, no, I do not wish to see Heroin, Cocaine or any hard drugs legalized.

What you and the OP are doing is shifting responsibility from those who do wrong onto the shoulders of those who are trying to keep this a strong and moral society.

See you used that word "responsibility" and that is wrong, that a pot head can be irresponsible does not make smoking pot irresponsible, so you are the one shifting the responsibility of choice to be responsible from the pot user to society and that I have a problem with, it is parental government.

Whose version of morality are you speaking of? I just don't find thou shalt not toke in the 10 commandments.

So, again, what about rape? Why not legalize rape? Murder?

Where will it end?

Now who is using diversion?

Answer me this, If I planted a marijuana seed in the ground, harvested it and smoked it, who did I harm?

 

[bnsaibum]

Methinks this is heading in this direction

I've always wanted to use that one

 

[gehrheart]

What you and the OP are doing is shifting responsibility from those who do wrong onto the shoulders of those who are trying to keep this a strong and moral society.

WHOA, I (being the OP of this thread), had nothing to say about drugs. I just want to talk about guns.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Answer me this, If I planted a marijuana seed in the ground, harvested it and smoked it, who did I harm?

You took potential profit away from that hard-working, murdering drug cartel in Mexico

Pot illegality = malum prohibitum
rape/murder = malum in se

The marijuana laws caused the violence in Mexico. If there were no money incentive in the trade (legalized, taxed & grown here like tobacco and alcohol), they might as well be growing tobacco, oranges, or avacados.

The proposed laws by Adams is nothing but a waste of time and money. One of the morning radio shows interviewed the ex chief of police and he said these proposals are not only completely ineffective, they aren't even a concern for the gang task units (even though it's supposed to reduce "gang violence").