Is this to be expected...

[1337BaldEagle]

Is this to be expected at 200yds with American Eagle 5.56 62gr FMJ (green tip) with a stock Bushmaster XM15 E2S? I'm trying to work on consistency and trying to get a feel for expected accuracy and precision of the round. I guess what I'm asking is how much of this is me. I'm amusing a lot. I should also note that I am shooting at the bullseye but from my calculations when I'm aiming at the bullseye I should be hitting 2.252" high with no other factors.

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[edogg]

I've read that American Eagle green tip isn't very accurate. Try some different ammo (maybe some match ammo).


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[James 61]

Something else to keep in mind. The Marines zero their M16s at 33 yards which sets the rifle up to be able to engage targets from 0 to 300 yards without having to mess with the elevation settings on the rear sight. This is doable because the impact of the round is the same at 33yds as it is at 300yds do to the ballistic arc of 5.56 ammo. I know from experience that this works with the 62gr green tip rounds as that is what we shot when I was on active duty. I don't know if it works with 55gr or the other weights available. Also remember the M16, and the average rifle from the AR15 family, are battle rifles and not precision tools and weren't designed to be tack drivers (and yes there are some that are built to be tack drivers) but to function in war. I know the grouping is large but if you can consistently put rounds into an 8 inch circle from 200-300 yards from any position (specifically standing) and a hit a man sized target at 500 yards from the prone using iron sights I would consider that to be acceptable performance. In fact that kind of shooting would easily qualify you as a sharpshooter if not expert by USMC standards. (Based on my memory of rifle qualification standards from nearly 20 yrs ago.). Hope this helps.

 

[cookie]

The 30 yard dial in sucks big time because it is really high a 200 yards. Anyway I think the group you shot with that ammo is as good as it gets. Try some match type ammo. Yes it is costly but a box may be worth it to see how the rifle really shoots . This sight adjustment procedure works really good and only requires a 16th inch allen wrench and be careful not to strip the allen head by over torqueing the allen screw. It is a special allen screw that costs around $5.00 + shipping,,, don't ask how I know. Link <broken link removed>

 

[rick benjamin]

You are shooting a decent group.
How about 20 shots, slow fire?
Use the same batch of ammo.
Once a group is established, move the group to center.

What I remember from 37 years ago at Edison Range.

Breathe
Relax
Aim (close your eyes, breathe, open eyes. Are you on target? Shift body till you are. Repeat)
Stop (let half a breath out, hold the rest) (any more than 10 seconds, start over)
Squeeze (slowly. Shot should be a surprise)

Think, what did you last see (your rifle pointing at) when it fired?
Plot where you think the shot went (in a notebook, on a paper target, etc).
Mark where it actually went.

 

[oli700]

looks about right with irons and steel core ammo


What yardage are you zeroed at ?

 

[U201491]

Something else to keep in mind. The Marines zero their M16s at 33 yards which sets the rifle up to be able to engage targets from 0 to 300 yards without having to mess with the elevation settings on the rear sight. This is doable because the impact of the round is the same at 33yds as it is at 300yds do to the ballistic arc of 5.56 ammo. I know from experience that this works with the 62gr green tip rounds as that is what we shot when I was on active duty. I don't know if it works with 55gr or the other weights available. Also remember the M16, and the average rifle from the AR15 family, are battle rifles and not precision tools and weren't designed to be tack drivers (and yes there are some that are built to be tack drivers) but to function in war. I know the grouping is large but if you can consistently put rounds into an 8 inch circle from 200-300 yards from any position (specifically standing) and a hit a man sized target at 500 yards from the prone using iron sights I would consider that to be acceptable performance. In fact that kind of shooting would easily qualify you as a sharpshooter if not expert by USMC standards. (Based on my memory of rifle qualification standards from nearly 20 yrs ago.). Hope this helps.

That is pretty close.
I get zero at 27 to 30 yrds , which puts the rounds at +1" at 50, +2.5" at 100 and +2.1 at 200 and approx. -3 at 300. Extremely consistent.
All inside 6" , easy to compensate at varying ranges for a zeroed hit.
Slight variation between bullet wts.
That is with a 16.2" 1 in 9 twist

The new Ruger SR's are near match grade.

 

[erudne]

This is where marksmanship training comes in:
You need to start from scratch; your sight picture is good but breath control and trigger squeeze are rough, I would guess your holding your breath too long before the squeeze.
Fire only one round each time you take aim, do not hold your breath between rounds fired
BUT THIS IS JUST YOUR FOUNDATION!
It is to train you so you know instinctively how to aim and squeeze off a round under duress and even while moving; it is the 'wax on, wax off' of a rifleman. It is the basis of becoming one with your rifle. Master your rifle and then master your bayonet, it is a martial art.

 

[oli700]

I go with the 50 yard zero, pretty much a dead on hold to 225 with any target 3 inches and greater.....my the groups open up a bit out at 200, about like what the op posted but with my red dot it covers a huge amount at 200.

 

[mancat]

if that's with iron sights, I would think that's about the mad that any one could do at 200yd. don't judge the rifle until you've shot it magnified with match ammo.

 

[1337BaldEagle]

It was magnified with a cheep Tasco 3-9X40. But like I said in the OP it was bulk military ammo. I have since shot 55gr Hornaday .223 through it and just going from Mill surplus to Hornaday regular ammo there is a striking reduction in the flyers. It will be intresting to see what it will be like when I get a hold of some match Hornaday.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I like a 100 yard 2 inch high zero because it fine tunes the POI better. Many factors to accuracy, barrel/load/shooter/position, etc

I have an Oly Arms Ultra Match that will drop bowling pins at 400 yards and others that do maybe 2 MOA, all with SS109/M855 surp

 

[LogicBomb]

It was magnified with a cheep Tasco 3-9X40. But like I said in the OP it was bulk military ammo. I have since shot 55gr Hornaday .223 through it and just going from Mill surplus to Hornaday regular ammo there is a striking reduction in the flyers. It will be intresting to see what it will be like when I get a hold of some match Hornaday.

or you can roll your own

 

[1337BaldEagle]

or you can roll your own

I have everything I need except case lube and de-burrur. And then I fully intend to.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

You do need a SB sizing die and a case gauge is very handy. I deburr with a handheld battery powered drill and an RCBS tool chucked up

 

[1337BaldEagle]

A mic will work just as well as a case gauge if you measure all the dimensions, yes?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Yes but the case GA tells you that it's concentric and it's also faster. I check every 100 rds or so as I size. A case GA is cheap