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Is this 'sensible' gun regulation?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Dave Workman, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Anybody know a vet with PTSD? This might be worth reading.

    ============================================
    Is this what Washington Post calls 'sensible' gun regulation?

    “Sensible and much needed gun regulations,” eh? Perhaps the Post means regulations like the one now stripping a decorated Iraq combat veteran of his Second Amendment rights...

    Is this what Washington Post calls "sensible" gun regulation? - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

    or try this:

    Is this what Washington Post calls "sensible" gun regulation? - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com
     
  2. DB Cooper

    DB Cooper Springfield, Oregon Member

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    Here's the catch...

    From the BATF Form 4473

    "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manage your own affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

    "Adjudicated" Legally judged to be...

    PTSD, could and probably would be determined to be a mental defect in court. A new "Anti" approach to gun control.

    I myself, have slight (if there is such a category) PTSD.
     
  3. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    I myself would like to know how many sufferers of PTSD have actually gone Rambo-in-the-jailcell crazy over the last century of warfare. Personally, I doubt the statistic is higher than that of the general population. IMO, this sounds like 'precrime'.

    Keith
     
  4. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Keith:
    The real problem with this entire scenario is as I noted in the column: As word of this B.S. spreads, just how many returning combat vets with PTSD and a genuine need for some assistance will forego that help because they fear automatically losing their 2A rights?

    IIRC this began with a policy shift back in the Clinton admin, and despite efforts to correct it, the bureaucracy continues to hose these people, automatically providing their names to NICS.
     
  5. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    Agrered. This is a solution seeking a problem, with the unintended consequence of people who need help deciding not to seek it.

    Keith
     
  6. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well the story says that the Iraq vet has PTSD to the point where his wife handles the financial affairs. If he is so troubled by his PTSD that he can't make financial decisions or otherwise deal with everyday life, then maybe he shouldn't have a firearm. There is a difference between living with PTSD and being adjudicated incompetent or having to be committed for treatment. Its a matter of degree like everything else. If inability to manage financial affairs disallows one from owning a gun, then why do we let the government have them? :)
     
  7. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    >sensible
    >gun regulation
    oh_u.jpg
     
  8. byte1032

    byte1032 out west Member

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    the key to something like this is looking at PTSD as a mental illness and remove the vet aspect from your consideration. If you take someone that has say downs syndrome or other mental issues that allow them to function in society but contribute them to fits of rage against themselves and possibly others should they be allowed to own a firearm. think rational about the reasons not the politics of what "side" presented it. I have family friends that have come back with sever PTSD and should not have been allow to own a firearm because they were no longer mentally fit to do so and guess what sadly they are no longer with us due to their own accord............ this not saying all people with PTSD are a threat to themselves or others but there is a very fine line between functioning normally with it and harming themselves or those around them.
     
  9. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    Having said that- where is the line? Who decides this line? I have PTSD...I have to inspect every First-Aid kit I come in contact with to make sure it has everything in it. I also have "flashback-like" memories everytime I read a medical book dealing with CPR or major wounds.

    People deal with stress, trajedy and violent encounters their own ways. Saying people with PTSD shouldn't own a firearm is like saying that anyone that loses someone close to them to suicide should have everything in their home removed that can hurt them.

    PTSD is one of the most misunderstood diagnoses in the world. Everyone that experiences it needs different remidies for it. Some people lash out into crazy, mad fits. Some bottle it up inside and blow up at random encounters. Nevertheless, some embrace their experiences and try to learn from them...cops go to the range more, EMTs practice putting in a chest tube until it comes second nature.

    Most people use humor to dismiss the stress...that is where you get most of your "darker" humor that makes fun of death and dismemberment. Some people call this insensitive, but if you had to do it on a daily bases you would either do the same, or crack under the constant gore by being able to not sleep or eat for days.

    Many of PTSD victimins need someone to talk to...but they don't know how. They fear persecution and critisim of others (like yourself) that have no idea about what they are going through. They fear talking to family members so that they aren't viewed as crazy nuts that need to be avoided...education, counseling, and outreach from friends and loved ones is the only way to treat PTSD. They have to know what they are going through and that their symptoms are simply your body's reaction to abnormal things that they've experienced. They need healthy hobbies and friends that they can talk to...taking firearms away from PTSD soldiers for fear or harming someone is like taking the tires off your car because you don't want a flat tire.

    Firearms overseas to a soldier is like an extension of you...it's their boots and uniform. When I got back I basically NEEDED a firearm on me because of how naked and vulnerable I felt. I felt that I was nothing more than cannon fodded to a violent act and virtually useless without something on my hip.

    Obviously that feeling has fadded a little since my time out...have I harmed anyone? No...have I committed any crimes? No.

    PTSD cannot be accosted this way. They are not "mentally retarded" or have birth defects simular to "down's syndrome". They have a disorder that can be treated as simply as the flu- but it must have the right treatment and understanding!

    *Riot Out*
     
  10. byte1032

    byte1032 out west Member

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    i agree with everything you said except for clumping me as someone that doesnt care. i tried to word and take care in what i wrote so as not to come across incorrectly. there is no persecution or criticism in what i wrote. anyone that knows me knows that no matter the case no matter the time i am always the person they can call on for any reason without recourse, thats my my phone never is turned off. PTSD like anything mentally related is a fine line like i said, some of us deal with the stresses and strains well and others do not i dont have an answer for who or what should be limiting anything just that care should be taken :thumbup:
     
  11. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

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    I served in Iraq during Desert Storm and new 3 people with PTSD. Back in WW1 and WW2 it was shell shock and other terms. It comes in all forms of different levels and no case is the same. Plus most people with PTSD also have a co-occuring disorder mostly substance abuse. According to the APA it is around 65% that are comorbidity and it can be a dangerous situation. Each case needs to be looked at individually. You can not group all of them together.

    The 3 I knew and still know are receiving treatment and taking meds and have weekly sessions. PTSD was not put into the DSM until about 1985 and there are many different theories on the topic. I have seen people with PTSD that I did not know and they had to be inpatient clients. So from my experience and education there are some people that should not have guns until they receive the help they need and take time to recover. Plus if someone with PTSD goes to a therapist on their own w/o anyone knowing you don't loose your rights. You have to be court ordered to a inpatient position to loose your rights. You should read the DSM to find out what it really is.

    Another important part of this is the Virgina Tech shooting as a good example. To make it short the guy said he was going to kill himself so the police to him to the hospital and then he said he changed his mind and did not mean it so they released him and then look at what he did. The laws are just as screwed up as well.

    Should people with people with PTSD be able to have guns? I say yes in certain conditions but some people should not as well. Because it's not just vets with PTSD it is murdered family victions, rape, 9/11, and many other reasons why people get it.

    It's a problem and not many people come forward because of their irrational thinking. People may think others think they are weak, cowards, and many other false beliefs.

    Thats enough from me and this is just my opinion and I do respect all of yours but you have to remember there is a lot of information to consider.

    Scott
     
  12. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    Placing PTSD and mental ret@rdation in the same category is insulting to say the least...it's like saying they're a "lost cause" and everyone would be better off by simply putting them in some special place so we don't have to deal with them.

    Ignorance, like PTSD, is treatable...over time I hope we can get rid of both symptoms.
     
  13. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    FYI, if this goes through then I guess if you are an alcoholic I guess you should have your license taken away.

    Same thought process isn't it? I mean, if you are an alcoholic- doesn't that mean you are going to drive drunk at some point?

    So, for safety reasons, I think all alcoholics shouldn't be able to drive...just like child molesters shouldn't be around schools.

    See what I did there? I put an actual, treatable and tragic condition in the same category as a horrific crime to get more people on my side in the guise of "safety".


    If you have PTSD, or know someone who has and they put out signs of hurting themselves or others you should have a sit down with them and try to help. Just like you shouldn't let someone you know drink and drive, you should probably ask for the gun from a serious PTSD sufferer.

    Having said that, I will never be for a law to make it mandatory for PTSD sufferers to disarm. That will only discourage people from seeking help...just like saying that Alcoholics won't be able to drive anymore. Any way you label it, it's bad mojo...PTSD sufferers are just like everyone else- except they've seen, heard, smelled or felt something that nobody should ever have to.

    Like Scott stated, every case is different and every person takes their experiences differently.

    Someone who grows up on a farm seeing cows slaughtered will have an easier time seeing a person blown apart than someone growing up in the suburbs, but them seeing a kid run over by a tank might still sting a bit. PTSD is nothing more than a label the military decided to put on people so that they could discharge them out without seeming like they're dumping them on the streets.

    They're people....NORMAL PEOPLE that had to go through something that nobody should...


    I think I'm done with this topic.
     
  14. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The only "Sensible Gun Regulation" that I am aware of is when you know that both barrels of your .450-400 Holland and Holland will smack a Cape Buffalo spot-on the nose at 10 yards.
     
  15. DB Cooper

    DB Cooper Springfield, Oregon Member

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    PTSD manifests itself in any number of ways. Sounds, smells or combination of things can trigger it. And the reactions are different in everyone who suffers from it. Some fly into a rage, some are overcome with uncontrollable fear followed by depression.

    I have a problem with the sound of a Huey flying over, and the smell of stagnant water, such as old Mill ponds and slews. I don't go bug nuts, but a feeling of dread comes over me, and I become hyper alert. It usually passes in a short period of time, but have had instances where it lingered for a while.

    Years ago a ballast in an iridescent light exploded directly above my head at work. They had to pry me out from under the furniture. The only time I ever missed any work due to PTSD, I went home for the day.

    I had a close friend who, at the sound of a riveting gun or air wrench would duck uncontrollably.
     
  16. riverrat373

    riverrat373 Washington State Member

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    You know what Dave? The Washington Post is known among liberals for their Conservative slant!:D
     
  17. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    there's no such thing as sensible Constitutional rights violations. end of story.
     
  18. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    SCOTUS says otherwise!

    And until that's overturned we have to live with it.

    Deen
    NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
    WAC Member
    SWWAC Member
     
  19. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    And both the current POTUS and TOTUS agree.

    Keith
     
  20. pdx lefty

    pdx lefty portland Active Member

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    Well stated Riot!!! I hope people who know a Veteran understand this! They should feel comfortable asking for what they need/are owed and the rest of us should offer our support selflessly! It's not only the right thing to do it's the responsible thing to do.

    Thanks for your service!

    Lefty.