Is this self defense?

[BrandonOR]

I would like to try and keep this as unbiased as possible but I understand everyone has their opinions and they can be passionate.

This is footage of an encounter of Antifa and Proud Boys in Olympia that ended in a shooting. I have my own personal opinion on it but was curious what other people thought in a self defense legal stand point.

Knowledge of Washington self defense laws are greatly appreciated.

These are the 2 clearest videos

https://twitter.com/x/status/1434297207369388035

https://twitter.com/x/status/1436355179675152391

Have at it, I know Twitter is trash but it's where the videos are.

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[JohnnyMac]

Did Tiny have a firearm? Was he using that stick with deadly force? It did not appear to me that Tiny was in hot pursuit. Looks to me like the BB ran around the corner and set an ambush/trap. If you can evade the situation (which it looked to me like the BB had ample opportunity to do so) then I'm pretty sure the use of deadly force is not legal. The second video references that this is "one of the assaults" so what happened before or after may have bearing on the outcome. I'm far from a lawyer, but that's my 2 cents.

 

[Alexx1401]

The problem with something like this is we see so little of what happened. What lead up to the shots fired and such. There is a reason I would not even think about going to one of these "encounters". When you get two sides going at each other it can turn to a shooting. Often in a situation like this if you are being attacked and use a firearm there is a real good chance some local prosecutor is still going to try to make a case against you. Then it's up to you to try to pay to defend yourself which can be VERY costly. Something to think about when deciding to go to one of these kind of things.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Just what is a threat...?

What is threatening to me...may not be to you...or more importantly to the jury.
And yes I have heard that overused old phrase...Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6...

To that I would say for you to consider , just who will make up that jury of 12 of your so-called peers.
Many will not think like you , not have anything in common with you and bring their own bias and mindset to your trial.

Please note that I am not saying to , not defend yourself...
I am saying that you should not rely on old sayings to come true.

In any event in regards to the OP's question...
As noted by @Alexx1401 ...
What happened before the video..is just as important as what was filmed.
Andy

 

[Stomper]

These "encounters" are tantamount to a "Westside Story" gang-fight.

From my perspective, it's a battle of egos of (mostly) young males that are hopped up on testosterone (yes even beta males have testosterone) and just want to fight. I absolutely despise ANTIFA and what they stand for and their actions, and the PB's like to "flex"… which is dumb.

"Ideology" is merely an excuse being used by both sides to go out and brawl. Although I'd gut you like a fish, break your bones, or gun you down I've never been into nor have any use for brawling.

I've never enjoyed watching boxing or MMA fights either, and these "demonstrations" are akin to that but with a different "backstory".

What I saw was a stupid prize being awarded at a stupid game. Meanwhile the elites are sitting back and laughing at all the players.

 

[orygun]

Speaking for myself.
I don't go to rallies or protests. Even if it's for an issue that I have strong opinions about. I don't really care for crowds in the first place, but people get very stupid in situations like that. Add in a counter protest and I see it as nothing more than a challenge to fight. I've got no desire to even watch the carnage, let alone end up being collateral damage.
I agree with @Alexx1401 & @Stomper .

This instance will be construed every possible way to try and place blame. Remember when the dude got shot last year in Portland? The city government was quick to place blame... On him!

No one is free of guilt here. That's how I see it.

 

[AshWilliams]

I don't have very much sympathy for anyone who attends these bubblegum shows where historically people have been shot, stabbed, and beaten. They're essentially the equivalent of US hooligan brawls and both sides are nothing more than two heads of the same beast: ignorance.

 

[Knobgoblin]

I don't have very much sympathy for anyone who attends these bubblegum shows where historically people have been shot, stabbed, and beaten. They're essentially the equivalent of US hooligan brawls and both sides are nothing more than two heads of the same beast: ignorance.

That hooligan comparison is pure gold.

Smart man.

 

[Capn Jack]

Pass the wine Randy. I'm with you.

 

[Capn Jack]

No distance weapons allowed. We don't want to become collateral damage.

 

[RVTECH]

I'm fine with both groups being locked in an arena until only one walks out.

Better yet a very small, deserted island - away from everyone and everything.

 

[BrandonOR]

Did Tiny have a firearm? Was he using that stick with deadly force? It did not appear to me that Tiny was in hot pursuit. Looks to me like the BB ran around the corner and set an ambush/trap. If you can evade the situation (which it looked to me like the BB had ample opportunity to do so) then I'm pretty sure the use of deadly force is not legal. The second video references that this is "one of the assaults" so what happened before or after may have bearing on the outcome. I'm far from a lawyer, but that's my 2 cents.

The distance gained and stopping to turn around is what gives me hesitancy that it was an imminent deadly threat. He could have continued to walk or run but it looked very much like randomly shooting into a crowd.

 

[TTSX]

If you have to ask, it probably isn't

 

[RVTECH]

I just watched the vid and there was no self defense about it.

The shooter turned and appeared to fire indiscriminately into the crowd and the guy with the stick got hit but he was obviously not attacking the guy however I agree with those who think attending something like this is trouble waiting to happen.

 

[bionic knees]

the short answer, NO, it was not self-defense. I also do not attend those events as I have zero tolerance for someone getting up in my face, period.

 

[jjfitch]

Does not meet the basic requirements to claim self defense for Washington or other western states.
Ability, opportunity and jeopardy of the threat?

The shooter changed from a victim to an aggressor when he created distance and stopped, turned and fired.

Sorry but I did not see enough to raise the level of the threat to warrant deadly force.

 

[Cavedweller]

Looks more premeditated to me. In the 2nd video it looks like there may have been a handoff of the weapon. Notice the guy who comes over to the shooter as they trot down the sidewalk. Does he pass the weapon? Then he appears to shove the shooter toward his firing position. Looks to me like he is giving directions.

 

[RVTECH]

Does he pass the weapon?

I watched it several times and while it does look like the guy was passing a gun i believe he was just grabbing at the guys arm and pulling him along. It looks like the shooter pulled the gun out of his right back pocket.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

I would like to try and keep this as unbiased as possible but I understand everyone has their opinions and they can be passionate.

This is footage of an encounter of Antifa and Proud Boys in Olympia that ended in a shooting. I have my own personal opinion on it but was curious what other people thought in a self defense legal stand point.

Knowledge of Washington self defense laws are greatly appreciated.

These are the 2 clearest videos

https://twitter.com/x/status/1434297207369388035

https://twitter.com/x/status/1436355179675152391

Have at it, I know Twitter is trash but it's where the videos are.

Watched both videos multiple times: I'm going to say that would not constitute self-defense in any jurisdiction.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

Speaking for myself.
I don't go to rallies or protests. Even if it's for an issue that I have strong opinions about. I don't really care for crowds in the first place, but people get very stupid in situations like that. Add in a counter protest and I see it as nothing more than a challenge to fight. I've got no desire to even watch the carnage, let alone end up being collateral damage.
I agree with @Alexx1401 & @Stomper .

This instance will be construed every possible way to try and place blame. Remember when the dude got shot last year in Portland? The city government was quick to place blame... On him!

No one is free of guilt here. That's how I see it.

Very true. Play stupid games, right? The first thing any competent self-defense instructor should teach is situational awareness and studiously avoiding situations where you may need to draw and fire. Regardless of the circumstances, it's probably not going to end well for anyone involved. Even if you are in the right, you are looking at potential financial ruin, loss of reputation, worst case loss of life.

See: Kyle Rittenhouse.