Is this conceal or open carry?

[Alexx1401]

So you probably remember the case that set the "fanny pack precedent".

With no CCW permit system at the time, a guy with a fanny pack holster gets braced by the coppers. Long story short (and referring to my previous post) the defense argued that the holster was visible. The pack was designed as a holster and the cops recognized it as such, therefore it met the criteria of "any part of the gun, holster, or case" being visible.

An OR CHL is pretty easy to get (although l vehemently oppose the infringement) and heads off a LOT of potential legal traps... and yes, I use the word "traps" purposefully. It basically goes all My Cousin Vinnie at the end of the firearms regs section (ORS 196.-whatever): "Everything that guy just said... is bullsh*t".

No don't remember that one but that is interesting. When I lived there are took to using a fanny pack to carry but it was not one of the ones made to carry a gun. This was pre Algore and the net and I had at that time never seen one made for a gun. Just noticed them all over the place and one day thought that would work great. It was a Mis. to get cited carrying concealed. I got so tired of being asked to leave business's over my open gun and having snow flakes literally freak out when they spotted it that I took to carrying concealed.

 

[Jonnyuma]

It was a Mis. to get cited carrying concealed. I got so tired of being asked to leave business's over my open gun and having snow flakes literally freak out when they spotted it that I took to carrying concealed.

Agree. I was asked to leave more than one business, had "security" follow me around, and was even escorted out the door a time or two while OCing and conforming to the state law.

OTOH, when returning dirty, dusty, and in full saddle-tramp mode from one of my multi-day "walkabouts" in the desert looking for gold and ghost towns, packing a 44 mag SBH "buscadero-style", I could stop into any 7/11 or Circle K for a drink and nobody would say a word.
Payless Shoes (for my growing boys) was a no go.
Go figure.

 

[trevi]

I agree such as 'What is the legal definition of a holster?'

Today I biked to Walmart in Tacoma with my chest rig and received some looks from a copper in his patrol car. Nothing happened. I wear the chest rig because when I bike my shirt will catch wind and show my pistol. I am not an open carry person within the city. This is a pertinent question.

 

[raftman]

I don't have sufficient expertise to say whether the holster in question could possibly be construed as concealed as far as the law is concerned... but probably best not to put oneself at legal risk by experimenting with it (if such circumstances exist that make it a risk), if one has a choice.

I look at it like concealed-carrying an antique handgun of some sort without a CHL (in a jurisdiction that requires CHL's). Sure you might make the argument that an antique isn't legally a firearm and indeed some states may not have written their CHL laws to cover this scenario but even if you end up being right in the end, it'll probably be expensive and painful to find out.

 

[DunRanull]

I agree such as 'What is the legal definition of a holster?'

That depends on what the definition of "is" is...

 

[RVTECH]

That depends on what the definition of "is" is...

LOL ! Good 'classic' reference!

 

[CHLChris]

And this holster is just fine for its intended purpose. They served for many, many years and a war. It serves me for hiking and fishing as well.

I hear you that the thread was more about the theoretical question. But I just don't see why anyone now would EVER carry in this matter (maybe fishing/hiking, but I would still want something more accessible).

Concerning wartime use, a flap holster is only useful when also carrying a real firearm...a rifle. In which case there are few times one even uses the sidearm.

 

[DunRanull]

This would be an "open-carry" in my book.. I like a full-flap holster for carry in the woods/hills.. to protect the piece from sticks, dirt, dust etc.. granted it isnt a quick-draw rig but then Ive never needed a fast draw. Especially like to protect the ol Python and the model 28 S&W... I do have other holsters made for these revolvers that are almost as good that I generally use however, and the Python is an "almost never" carry in any case.

 

[EHJ]

What if I intended to carry "openly" with a full cover holster like this and not consider myself concealing?

We know its a war style holster - but does the public?
And what if I constructed a different holster like this - but more of a boxier shape? Same flap style...
I'm still 'intending' that I am carrying open - but am I?

So now we are discussing the 'shape' of a flap covered holster..?

 

[The Heretic]

Concerning wartime use, a flap holster is only useful when also carrying a real firearm...a rifle. In which case there are few times one even uses the sidearm.

I have several flap holsters and I prefer them whether I carry a long gun or not. First I want to protect the handgun from harm, many of which are worth $1k+. Second, I want to reduce the chance the the handgun could be lost - at the very least I want a thumb break holster. I would actually like to get a lanyard too.

I know that many people think a handgun may be needed quickly and that every second counts, but in all of my life, I have never been in such a situation where I needed to be quick on the draw. OTOH, there have been a few times when I felt I needed a handgun and I didn't have one, but I would have had the time to retrieve one from a full flap holster if I just had it on my person.

I wander around in my woods quite a lot, and it is rare that I am actually armed when I do so. There are bears and cougars and feral dogs, but I just don't seem to encounter them, much less be threatened by them. The day before yesterday I wished I had a handgun on me though - I kept seeing mice pop out of the grass as I was mowing and I wanted to shoot them with some shot cartridges but I forgot to setup for that.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

I decided to go directly to the real authorities on this matter of concealed carry. I met up with two gangbangers near Gresham today. So my question was, "How do you gentlemen carry your handguns when you are on your way to settle a disagreement with some other gentlemen who happen to be purveying their pharmaceuticals in an area that is exclusively your sales territory?" The first pharmaceutical salesman replied '" Um, da' MF dat Imo' bust a cap in, be dat MF Latwain. He be da' MF dat be selling' dime bags O' geez dat be mostly sugar. He is also da' baby daddy O' my b***h Shaneen's four oldest kids dat she had in high skuul. He be putting' some bad s**t out dere an' saying' he be selling' our s**t. Ya' now wha' I'm sayin'? I carry dis' stolen 9MM in dis Han' here. I don't be needing' no MF holster. I ain't no cowboy! The 2nd sales rep chimed in with " Gog dat win' dis' MF an den I sees him wit dat you know wha' I'm sayin? So's I be shooting dat MF. I be like holden my gat dis way (sideways) 'cause it be looking' cool."
So there you have it. I think this authoritative investigation should put this concealed carry matter completely to rest.

 

[sobo]

OK, so your two pharmaceutical representatives sound like gangstas... but can they shoot like gangstas???

 

[Lazyfaire]

This is (some pic) of the holster for a Walther PP I carry sometimes...

Always wondered if it could still be argued concealed in a full covering holster visible off my hip.

View attachment 737377

I've been told that even a glimpse of an empty holster can be 'triggering' to some of the woke crowd.

 

[sobo]

I've been told that even a glimpse of an empty holster can be 'triggering' to some of the woke crowd.

 

[Alexx1401]

Agree. I was asked to leave more than one business, had "security" follow me around, and was even escorted out the door a time or two while OCing and conforming to the state law.

OTOH, when returning dirty, dusty, and in full saddle-tramp mode from one of my multi-day "walkabouts" in the desert looking for gold and ghost towns, packing a 44 mag SBH "buscadero-style", I could stop into any 7/11 or Circle K for a drink and nobody would say a word.
Payless Shoes (for my growing boys) was a no go.
Go figure.

Yep I don't remember ever getting asked to leave a stop'n'rob when I had a pistol in the open. Back in those days you went in to pay for gas after pumping. Of course would often grab something to drink since had to go in anyway. Got a lot of sideways looks from others but clerk never said anything. So what are they going to do, tell you get out
Also that the place was grab something and go. It was always bigger stores, malls, ect. that someone would ask me to leave. I was at the Red Cross one day. They had called, needed my blood type. I was laying on the table after getting the screening. One RN was ready to stick me and other RN runs up to whisper to her "HE HAS A GUN!" To which RN with needle whispers back "SO WHAT?" The triggered RN got another RN who must have been a manager. Asked me if I could put it in my vehicle. I said I am on my bike (motor cycle) said don't want to leave it sitting on my seat, I can just leave if you like, you called me begging me to come. At this point manager offered to let me put it in her office which I did.

 

[Alexx1401]

I didn't find it either... only page after page of fanny pack holsters for sale.
I lived there from 89-04 so it happened in that time frame, probably late 90s or early 00s.
The only references I can find are to current CC/OC law, nothing from that far back.

Not sure what that means, if anything. Maybe a deep dive would bring it up, but without knowing the case name or even the exact year it's a long road to get past the .com aspect.

Trying to find local cases, especially ones that happened pre Algore and his invention would probably often be VERY hard. The one I cited I never read anything about it locally. If I had not known the guy would have never even heard of it. When he went to court I went with him since I had the day off and I wanted to see what the hell was going to happen since I carried the same way he did. I was of course glad he got "off" but, it still made me stop carrying that way just to avoid being at the mercy of some black robe to decide if I had broken the damn law. I often just carried concealed with no permit since we had no such thing. Figuring I was far less likely to have a problem that way than to open carry IWB with pistol clearly visible. Just one of the many problems with so many damn stupid gun laws