Is there anything better then 300 blk for home defense?

[Andy54Hawken]

I was trying to add a little humor based on your love for the really old school weapons but now have to wonder if you're trying to be funny thinking that a single round musket is better armed than having a single blank round in a shotgun that has follow-up rounds? I'm not sure what the posts claiming I'll get myself (or someone else) killed are based on. I never asked anyone to agree with my opinion or use what I posted if it's not what they want to do. If you don't like it, or agree with it simply move on but comments about getting someone killed because of it are simply hyperbole. Now if you can produce case study or papers that prove otherwise, I'll gladly retract my opinion as dangerous. Otherwise it's my opinion, just as yours is that it's dangerous and will get someone killed. Others are capable of making their own decisions on whether it's a bad idea, okay idea or great idea.
Another benefit to having first round blank is that if for some negligent reason your child gets a hold of your shotgun, the first round likely won't kill a loved one. I have no children so not a concern of mine but those that do, it might be a consideration (I know, kids never touch firearms…).

As I said...I didn't know if you were joking or not.

And I stand by my statement of being better armed with a loaded and capped or primed muzzle loader than a shotgun loaded with a blank....
Partial quote of my original statement...

And to be serious I would be better armed than your loading of a blank in a shotgun.

Please note the use of the word "I"....
I would be better armed with loaded and primed or capped muzzle loader....as in I would...never said anyone else would.
I say this because of my experience and use of muzzle loaders.

In any event....All I ever really wanted to say to you was :

Do as you wish....it is your life , your situation and your home.
I wouldn't use your suggested loading....but that is me.
And....
Something else to consider....
You won't get to choose who breaks into your home...why they do so..or when.
But mostly importantly....'Cause it seems as if it needs repeating....
Do as you wish....its your life , your situation and your home.

Andy

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Re blanks, it seems to me the winner is often the first one to get shots on target. By giving away the first shot, you put yourself at a disadvantage. With a blank, even if you are the first one with a shot on target the result may be you getting shot rather than your opponent running away (or he may shoot you as he is running away).

 

[Certaindeaf]

Doubtful that a first round blank adds any increased chance of me ending up dead in my house..

When you fumble shucking that trombone not once, but twice, that'll be me snickering.

 

[Xaevian]

When you fumble shucking that trombone not once, but twice, that'll be me snickering.

Blank trombone:

 

[American123]

In the NRA publication, Rifleman Magazine. There are monthly accounts of people using guns to defend themselves across the U.S. In every month there is a scenario where the homeowner presents the gun and the suspect proceeds to attack them anyway, gets shot, and then either flees to seek medical attention, or dies, or flees and then dies.

Always seemed silly that after being presented with a gun they'd still barge forward menacingly toward the defender. Maybe they think the homeowner is bluffing? I read in this thread about keeping a shotgun unchambered, and then having the first round be a blank to scare them away. Goodness sake!

That practice ignores the reality of attacks on homeowners and it really demands an evaluation of why someone is so intent on not harming a person who willfully chooses to break into your home and put you and your family in danger.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

You guys still here? I thought I settled this way back on page one?

 

[American123]

You guys still here? I thought I settled this way back on page one?

Until the horse has become pulp, returned to the earth and served as nutrients for the plant growth - things are discussed.

 

[bradsteen]

Regarding the proposal of using a first-round blank and/or rubber shot, I don't think it's wise to treat a shotgun as both a lethal and less lethal tool for several reasons.

For one thing it requires you to commit to a less lethal course of action when the use of deadly force may be necessary. If you load 1 blank and 2 less lethal, you have a total of 3 rounds to go through before you get to something that can reliably stop a threat. If you're confronting one or more armed assailants, you could wind up dead before you get to the buckshot.

For another, firing a shotgun is considered using deadly force regardless of what you load it with. A blank can still kill someone if discharged at contact range, and rubber shot can kill if it hits them in the head or heart. You might get some sympathy from the court, but that's a gamble, not a sure thing. To paraphrase Jeff Cooper, the fight here and now is problem A, and the legal fight is problem B; if you don't solve problem A, you won't be around to solve problem B.

The only time when use of deadly force is justified is to defend one's self or others from an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm. If those conditions aren't present, discharging a weapon is not advisable, and could put you in some hot water legally. Conversely, if those conditions are present you need to be able to stop the threat quickly and efficiently, while exposing yourself and those around you to the least amount of danger possible.

Finally, shotguns already have limited capacity. Taking away 3 shells and replacing them with things that won't reliably stop a threat is trading a known quantity for one of subjective and questionable benefit.

If you are unwilling to use deadly force, or if you want to use a less lethal alternative as an intermediate step before sending buckshot downrange (i.e facing unarmed intruders), consider having a dedicated less lethal tool such as mace, a taser, pepper ball launcher, etc., and be ready to transition to the fully loaded shotgun if that doesn't stop the threat.

There's no shame in not being willing or able to end another person's life - that's a decision each of us must make independently whenever we pick up a gun. However, introducing a firearm into a situation where you don't intend to use it makes it much more likely that weapon will be taken from you and used either against you or a loved one.

All that being said, it's your life, your home, your loved ones, and your unique circumstances to contend with. Make an informed decision and be prepared to live with the consequences of your choices and actions.

 

[bpyycpyy]

To those that think a rubber bullet can't be effective, here is a link to some actual data indicating otherwise (warning, photos showing wound injuries are on the linked page) :

Pattern of rubber bullet injuries in the lower limbs: A report from Kashmir

Rubber bullets are considered a non-lethal method of crowd control and are being used over the world. However the literature regarding the pattern and management of these injuries is scarce for the forensic pathologist as well as for the traumatologist. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[American123]

To those that think a rubber bullet can't be effective, here is a link to some actual data indicating otherwise (warning, photos showing wound injuries are on the linked page) :

Pattern of rubber bullet injuries in the lower limbs: A report from Kashmir

Rubber bullets are considered a non-lethal method of crowd control and are being used over the world. However the literature regarding the pattern and management of these injuries is scarce for the forensic pathologist as well as for the traumatologist. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It seems like you are very concerned with justifying your choice of how you have your shotgun set up.

Why? If it's a good idea it doesn't matter if people agree with you or not, but the prevailing wisdom is that in a potential battle for your life with an unknown assailant(s) in your home, why reduce the potential effectiveness of your chosen firearm?

Rubber bullets primarily rely on psychological stops to be effective, "ouch, that hurt, I don't want to play anymore." Compared to structural damage that conventional bullets do to the body that are irrelevant of their perception of pain.

 

[bpyycpyy]

It seems like you are very concerned with justifying your choice of how you have your shotgun set up.

Why? If it's a good idea it doesn't matter if people agree with you or not, but the prevailing wisdom is that in a potential battle for your life with an unknown assailant(s) in your home, why reduce the potential effectiveness of your chosen firearm?

Rubber bullets primarily rely on psychological stops to be effective, "ouch, that hurt, I don't want to play anymore." Compared to structural damage that conventional bullets do to the body that are irrelevant of their perception of pain.

I'm not trying to justify my decision as I don't really care what others think about how I choose to do things. That's the beauty of America, we can have very similar thoughts on many things but yet not agree on others. In this case, I'm only trying to introduce facts to those that are implying that rubber bullets are not effective as a defense round. Whatever your choice is for home defense, I politely respect your opinion without criticism as I wish others had done so of mine. Implying that my decision is dangerous and/or will get someone killed is absolutely without basis, only their opinion (unless they have experience of defending their home from an intruder that was bent on killing them - then I apologize for categorizing their statement as an opinion). Feel free to refute my choice with sound arguments so others may come to their own conclusion and choices but to simply state likely untrue opinions does not help the situation (note that I state likely untrue here as I have no personal experience defending my home from invaders either as I would guess most of us don't). While I don't have sensitive skin and won't get "butt hurt" by these comments against my stated opinion, I can see where recently a post took a turn for the ugly because members weren't very respectful of other opinions. Just because another person's opinion doesn't completely agree with yours doesn't mean that you need to be a jerk (please don't read that I'm calling anyone a jerk - just a general way to live life). I think society in general has fallen into this pattern with little to no civility towards someone that doesn't agree lock, stock & barrel with them.
One of my favorite sayings is, "Those that think they know it all, really annoy those of us who do!".

 

[American123]

I'm not trying to justify my decision as I don't really care what others think about how I choose to do things. That's the beauty of America, we can have very similar thoughts on many things but yet not agree on others. In this case, I'm only trying to introduce facts to those that are implying that rubber bullets are not effective as a defense round. Whatever your choice is for home defense, I politely respect your opinion without criticism as I wish others had done so of mine. Implying that my decision is dangerous and/or will get someone killed is absolutely without basis, only their opinion (unless they have experience of defending their home from an intruder that was bent on killing them - then I apologize for categorizing their statement as an opinion). Feel free to refute my choice with sound arguments so others may come to their own conclusion and choices but to simply state likely untrue opinions does not help the situation (note that I state likely untrue here as I have no personal experience defending my home from invaders either as I would guess most of us don't). While I don't have sensitive skin and won't get "butt hurt" by these comments against my stated opinion, I can see where recently a post took a turn for the ugly because members weren't very respectful of other opinions. Just because another person's opinion doesn't completely agree with yours doesn't mean that you need to be a jerk (please don't read that I'm calling anyone a jerk - just a general way to live life). I think society in general has fallen into this pattern with little to no civility towards someone that doesn't agree lock, stock & barrel with them.
One of my favorite sayings is, "Those that think they know it all, really annoy those of us who do!".

Reading the medical accounts of the wounds though. The overwhelming evidence was that it is generally a non-lethal or penetrating round, but still should be used with caution because it CAN be lethal in select circumstances and it CAN penetrate in select circumstances. Of the two listed lethal instances, one was an eye hit and it continued into the brain. The other was related to aspiration problems on the operating table. When it was non lethal, but it penetrated, one of the more notable ones the suspect/victim stated that the officer literally put the muzzle against his body before pulling the trigger.

It just doesn't come across as a reliability effective method of responding to potentially lethal threats.

To me it just doesn't seem like anything of merit is gained by this choice, but there are obvious things lost.

 

[edzz]

OK, lets see

You encounter armed bad guy, fire blank, bad guy takes cover and returns fire.

Next you fire at bad guy who has taken cover with rubber pellets, pellets strike hard surface bounce back and put an eye out.

Than you attempt to chamber a lethal load as your bleeding out from bad guys spray and pray from cover.

If you want to waste capacity with a warning shot rather than using a blank you might think about first round being bird shot fired into the celling (or other safe spot). Or if the situation dictates the first shot be lethal the bird shot still will provide you with a chance.

IIWM

If I were to deploy a shotgun (not likely) it would be my old Ithaca Deer slayer loaded to the gills with 00 mini shells. As a side note, when it has been loaded for home defense, if it were deployed, a target 2 or 4 legged would not have a chance to hear it being pumped as it sits loaded with the slide back. If the threat is serious enough to chamber a round the trigger will already be pulled, can you say slam fire...

 

[NeoBlackdog]

One nice thing 'bout them rubber bullets is you can bounce 'em off a wall and around a corner and make the bad guy break cover.

 

[oremike]

Just a couple random thoughts.
My GP-100 fits in my night stand drawer much more better than any rifle or shotgun I've got.
My shepherd/lab is a great early warning and first line of defense.
I don't fire warning shots and don't train to wound only to end the threat.

 

[Edhunds]

Open to suggestion on anything better then 300 blackout for home defense. I mean it's a 30 cal with 30-60 capacity, in a small package (ar pistol, 20-24in overall length) with great penetration, stopping power, fantastic reliability and will be suppressed to top it off.

Most rifle callers, over penetration, 12 gauge if you want to use a long barrel

 

[1BoredGuy]

Well, if you like 300 BLK, try it with frangible bullets. Puts down your targets but the folks in the next room are much safer. Think about it.

I agree with the sentiment of this.
If your home has multiple family members and if your home is close to other homes.
Over penetration is a serious concern.
I'd consider Gold Dot soft points, "Defense" labeled series. Or something along those lines.

 

[3MTA3]

then you run in circles I don't

Don't knock running in circles. I read this great book from India on self defense once where you run in circles and let them chase you until they turn into butter, and then you use the butter on pancakes.

 

[osprey]

Most rifle callers, over penetration, 12 gauge if you want to use a long barrel

Yeah, another urban myth. Pistols, rifles and shotguns all have the potential to overpenetrate. Ammo choice and planning for your situation is the only mitigation.

 

[Prefontaine]

First round's a blank.

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