Is there a legitimate purpose for civillians to purchase and wear body-armor?

[supergenius]

Jesus christ... Trollllllll thread

 

[Just Jim]

I for one am impressed with the civil conversation coming FROM SJ and quite ashamed at the amount of angry, mean-spirited rudeness coming the other direction.

I'm definitely very RIGHT leaning, but appreciate the dialogue. I wish folks could avoid calling people idiots just because they began a dialogue from a viewpoint different than their own.

You are impressed way too easily. LOL Your friend SJ is the rude one by his questioning American freedom.

jj

 

[miletwo]

... SJ is the rude one by his questioning American freedom.

You argue like a liberal. Since when is asking a question and stating an opinion rude?

 

[sadiesassy]

I would think that if I lived on the Border I would want one.
Also inside Portland city limits

 

[matt_w]

blah blah blah

Obvious troll, but to answer his question of why a civilian would need it: none of your business, that's why.

 

[powersbj]

You argue like a liberal. Since when is asking a question and stating an opinion rude?

I.E. Why are (random ethnic group) so stupid? And they smell like ***..

WIN!

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

When did he do that? I saw him ask a question and engage in dialogue. Which part of that was an intrusion into somebody else' life?

His question and subsequent dialogue is all about intrusion and control. Body armor, hi-cap mags, ugly black guns - it's al the same.

Now see... this makes you sound like a nut case. Note: I'm not calling you one... just pointing that out. I do agree that our rights have been infringed for far too long and that the USGOV has overextended the reach of govt. creating what you and I would call a "Nanny State." For this reason I stockpile ammo when it's cheap, keep about 3 weeks of food in storage and have the means to survive should our society melt down in an extreme fashion...

I sound like a nut case, but you're not calling me one -really? Good on ya for the ammo, but way too weak on the 3 weeks - time is getting short, and you will want way more than 3 weeks worth.BUT!!!

Undoing what you so correctly point out is the erosion of our freedom and the sub-contracting of bravery to the government WILL NOT HAPPEN BY CALLING PEOPLE IDIOTS! If you want to change this, do it by education, by literate and coherent arguments, and by intelligent conversation. Don't think for a moment you will accomplish the education of a troll by stooping to their level. That sir makes you a fool.

Must have missed the name calling part - I don't usually engage in it. As for educating trolls- can't be done. The best you can do is make sure the opposing view is openly visible- otherwise people like me get to thinking we're in the minority when we absolutely are not. Fool? Sometimes, but not today.

Unlike others might be... I'm not DONE with this thread, throwing my hands up in disgust and walking away. Rather, I'm open to intelligent debate, concerned for the safety and welfare of my fellow man, and protective of my freedoms just like you are.

If you really want to protect your freedoms, you will have to get agressive about it. The people who are taking it from you observe no rules. They fight dirty.

First three rules of intelligent dialogue: Be Nice, Be Nice, Be Nice.

Being nice will only get you further down the path to slavery.

Seriously - bustin' my chops for namecalling? I was just called a nut job and a fool, and you say be nice?

 

[Just Jim]

You argue like a liberal. Since when is asking a question and stating an opinion rude?

I could easily ask you questions you would consider rude. Anyone who would limit my American freedoms I consider rude. I am not suprised you can't figure out the differences of one who wants to preserve freedom and liberal socialist who wish to take it away.

If your buddy would have said he saw no legit use of guns in the hands of civilians I am sure you wouldn't think that rude either. However that too goes against American freedom. Myself I think your buddy would be much happier in a country were so much freedom doesn't exist.

jj

 

[miletwo]

Okay not to hijack the thread (well maybe only a little...) Who makes good armor for a decent price that as a civilian I can buy? Now I'm interested.

I decided on my answer for why I would want it. I carry every day because some nut job might try to harm me or my family... Similarly, I would want armor in case I miss (unlikely with how much I practice) and he doesn't (unlikely again since he is a nut job.... as indicated previously).

 

[jaweber]

the question isn't why the question is why not! why not own it if you want to. why shouldn't we be able to own it. this is the united states if we want to own body armor we can. what if you want to go volunteer on the southern border body armor might be a good idea. and about the cartel thing they can get whatever they want i would'nt worry about the smuggling thing

 

[Joe Link]

Secondly, I would encourage posters to stick to the facts and address the OP's questions without resorting to accusation, innuendo, and trite political posturing.

I for one am impressed with the civil conversation coming FROM SJ and quite ashamed at the amount of angry, mean-spirited rudeness coming the other direction.

I'm definitely very RIGHT leaning, but appreciate the dialogue. I wish folks could avoid calling people idiots just because they began a dialogue from a viewpoint different than their own.

I too am quite disappointed in the members who have taken the low road with their replies in this thread. Troll or not, this is no way for this community to behave. I agree with miletwo in that I'd rather see posts like this on here, no matter the original posters intent, because it helps us think and re-affirm our viewpoints. Threads like this, when handled in a polite and mature manner, improve this community and help to welcome new people who really might not have an opinion yet but want to know more. If I were new here I'd be worried about posting a question in fear of receiving the same sort of replies.

The best way to deal with trolls is the same way you'd deal with new people (even if you know for a fact a person is merely trolling). Answer the question as if it were your child or grandmother asking. Trolls troll in order to get a rise out of people. If we here at NWFA show them that we as a community are above emotional internet responses they'll quickly get bored and go elsewhere.

Thank you to those of you who kept it civil in here.

 

[elsullo]

I wish I could afford some civilian fashion kevlar garments, like those sold all over Europe and Latin America to the affluent. These were developed in the 1970's in Italy when the anarchist-terrorists were frequently and randomly kidnapping and shooting aristos from motor scooters, and were perfected in Argentina and Chile in the 1980's during their times of street revolution and civil unrest. Mexico has boutiques for fashion armor in all major cities now, and only a fool would ask why they feel the need to buy it.

When I was younger I worked in a scary civilian job facing up to dangerous people. I was shot at at least three times and nearly stabbed once, and menaced on a daily basis. Those big Buck knives look REALLY big when waving in front of you! I wore the same duty coat that the Portland Police wore, fairly knife-proof, minus the body armor underneath, and was glad to have it! I would have bought kevlar liners if I had stuck with that career. The need for armor was simply real.

Now I am old, fat, grey, and walk badly with a cane---a perfect target for a street criminal. I have even been caressed by a pickpocket at the damn Goodwill store! Yeah, I want some kevlar clothing so that I could go out at night and feel safer. The OP claims to be from Saint Louis, one of the most violent cities in the Nation, usually ranked second only to Patterson, New Jersey for assault and murder. If the OP entity wonders about the need for personal armor, maybe it should go seek out some good barbecue 'round midnight?

I also question the OP entity's nickname, and suggest that it is pure proof of trollness. I have had the honor and good fortune to know and work with many Jewish people all of my life, and even lived monogamously with a woman of Jewish heritage for years. ALL OF THEM would see that nickname as offensive and impossible for anyone who was actually Jewish to use.........................elsullo

 

[elsie]

Under what authority would the granted powers of the US government give them the ability to prohibit civilian ownership of a garment designed to protect/mitigate the injuries the wearer would receive from a gunshot (aside from the overstretched Interstate Commerce clause)?

Let's reverse the question; why should the federal government prohibit the availability of a safety device from civilians, who are shot much more often than the government officials, besides the military? I've worn the older class 3 vests. They're heavy, hot and the protection breaks down quickly because they cause you to sweat a lot which get soaked into the material. It's not something I would wear daily. However, should a situation come up where I had the opportunity to avail myself of protective gear, I would like the ability to do so.

I think I'm seeing a trend in your questions. They frequently seem to go along the lines of "Why should the government allow...". That tells me that your civics education was woefully inadequate. You may want to re-look at that, paying particular attention to the Bill of Rights preamble and Ninth and Tenth Amendments.


elsie

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I'm sorry.....

It's ok. Today I had Taco Time.

Much better.

 

[Browncoat]

Here's my $.02. In response to Superjews' (Supertrolls') question, as a civilian I would like to be in body armor if I ever find myself using a gun defensively. Might not be too practical for daily CCW (hot & uncomfortable) but other scenarios like checking out a "bump in the night" (gun & flashlight - OR - gun, flashlight & vest) or a real SHTF thing like Katrina (Danziger bridge massacre). I also know I'm stating the obvious that making body armor illegal for civilians will do nothing to keep it out of the hands of criminals.

 

[Wheeler44]

I was thinkin'....Armor is kinda like other protective equipment....Seat belts, bicycle helmets, motorcycle helmets etc....

Now I'm worried that the Gov't might mandate body armor as they do seat belts, bicycle helmets and motorcycle helmets, fire extinguishers,etc...

w44

 

[blindfox]

ima start by saying that i only read the first two pages of posts, so if i repeat someone, sry.

i own and use body armor quite a lot actually. aside from the fact that i have a couple sets of IBA left over from my time in service i still use armor regularly when i go to the range and practice. there is no reason for me to walk around everyday wearing it (or at least not good enough) but in my line of work, you have to train how you fight. when i find myself in an imminent danger area and am wearing BA 24 hours a day i better be prepared to move as though im not wearing any at all. when i wear it as i train i wont be surprised by the difference in movement or weapons manipulation or by the increased weight as i try to hurdle fences and rooftops.

i keep an extra plate carrier ready to rock close at hand in my home as well. living outside the ft. lewis area the demographic is decidedly populated by soldiers and combat vets who also have access to the same goodies. we all know that sometimes soldiers can do some wacky things and re-integration can be difficult for some. the common scenario i use is this: suppose one of my neighbors just returned from a devastating deployment and sees me unloading all my lickies and chewies, range box and bags, ammo, and armor out of the truck as i come and go. not being right in the head in the first place, he decides to wait until i return and has his equally deranged buddy lying in wait to roll me over as i transport my gear into the house or waits till im doing maintenance and cleaning after the range. he's got high-powered weapons, i've got high-powered weapons, he's got armor, ive got armor, he has a buddy in his stack, i've got a roommate who's not too unlike myself.

i'm just trying to level the playing field, and this kind of thing isn't exactly a surprising story or scenario in tacoma. im not looking to barricade myself in my home and wait for a showdown with police, but there are a lot of mentally unstable folks around ft. lewis who think that when they get off the freedom bird they're still in the wild west.
case in point: remember the guys who were executing vigilante justice on hilltop or the rangers that raided a local BofA branch wearing their IBA. there's a reason you see Pierce County on Cops a lot...

(still, its like a billion to one i'll actually need to use it stateside, but if i do, i have it)

 

[blindfox]

oh yeah,
there's this and this

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Some people just can't handle the rights, responsibilities, and risks that come with living in a free society. Instead of moving to (any other) country that has already removed those, they insist on staying here and trying to further restrict liberty. The founders fought, bled, and died for liberty and believe it or not there are still a lot of Americans that will do it again if it comes to that.
Do some research. Find a country that has your desired level of oppression that you think will create the utopia you seek and move there. I'm sure you'll be very content and safe. We'll hang out here and take the risks that come with freedom. It ain't perfect (and never will be) but it's all we've got.

 

[packman]

i have a level III vest that i wear to ranges. when am likely to be shooting around people
i don't know. I have also left the range because of people i didn't feel save with. just my reason.