Is the new wave of gun owners making it an Elite Sport? Red Dots are my concern

[MountainBear]

I really ought to know better than to wade into this, so I will only be making this one comment and hitting the ignore button for the entire thread...

As a gunsmith, the first time a customer brings you a budget (insert brand and type here) accessory and asks if you can fix it because the plastic latch to the battery compartment snapped off, you just start shaking your head. No brand shaming here, but that problem has walked into my shop several times. The first time the broken bubblegum accessory was on a (at that time) $1400 Daniel Defense AR.

There is budget. And then there is bubblegum. If we are no longer allowed to say certain items are bubblegum, then we are doing a disservice to new shooters.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just some small town gunsmith. Not an "operator" like all them guys on the internets...

 

[Diamondback]

Good point, @MountainBear --I did forget to include a layer below "Starter" for the "milk the suckers" shady off-brands.

 

[Koda]

There is budget. And then there is bubblegum. If we are no longer allowed to say certain items are bubblegum, then we are doing a disservice to new shooters.

this is true, an experienced shooter knows what "cheap" brands to recommend to a newbie shooter to get them started on the right path and not waste their time on their limited budget. (Getting them to listen to you is another topic...)


I'm for the little guy in this thread, because Ive been there. Nothing wrong with cheap as long as it works and gets you going. A <broken link removed> and/or a good affordable pistol will work just fine for everything a beginner shooter needs.

 

[Diamondback]

@Koda Your "Sub-$400 AR" linky no worky, amigo.

That does beget an idea for expanding this discussion: How do we stack 'n' rack things across the Five Tier Model?

Junk - UTG (at worst)
Starter - UTG (generally at best), Anderson (at worst), Bushnell
Value - Anderson (at best), certain UTG things like risers
Better - Colt (at worst)
Best - Colt (at best), Magpul, Noveske, Daniel Defense

Anybody feel like helping build this out? OP, I'm not trying to hijack your thread, but rather to build on and support it.

Of course, some things depend on what outlet you buy them from and what you can catch 'em on sale for... like how I get FBI-spec FAB Defense parts for a fraction of the Federal-procurement price by buying off-color and waiting for 20- to 30%-off sales. "Never Pay Full Price" is a personal motto...

 

[Koda]

@Koda Your "Sub-$400 AR" linky no worky, amigo.

hmm works on my end. Its supposed to go to etrains thread called "how low can you go?" where Mygrainman listed an AR build for well under $400.

 

[Diamondback]

I get

Northwest Firearms - Oregon, Washington, and Idaho Gun Owners - Error
You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.

for the whole thread.

 

[tacticalgunner]

I get

Northwest Firearms - Oregon, Washington, and Idaho Gun Owners - Error
You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.

for the whole thread.

What is this?

 

[Aero Denezol]

Back in the day there was one (1) member with mirrored shades, probably early 50's or so, who used to walk the firing line at ARPC shamelessly snickering at everyone's gear. 99.99% of everyone at ARPC is great, but that guy was a pretentious a*hole. Why be that way, I wonder? Thank God I haven't seen him since I rejoined. I hope he became badly constipated and fell into a ravine.

People overvalue their gear. The NRA used to have an "armed citizen" column and it was stories about people who successfully defended themselves during a home invasion. If memory serves, it seems to me most of those were 80 year-old men with an old .357 revolver.

 

[Diamondback]

What is this?

That's a copy-paste of the "Mods Say Not For Your Eyes" message. Dunno why it got nuked, I remember it as a pretty useful thread...

 

[Koda]

I dont know what to say, the thread is still there and my link works on my end. <shrug>?

anyways you can buy a decent new AR for under $400.

 

[Diamondback]

Back in the day there was one (1) member with mirrored shades, probably early 50's or so, who used to walk the firing line at ARPC shamelessly snickering at everyone's gear. 99.99% of everyone at ARPC is great, but that guy was a pretentious a*hole. Why be that way, I wonder? Thank God I haven't seen him since I rejoined. I hope he became badly constipated and fell into a ravine.

I'll bet he'd have been the type to give my girlfriend sh*t and then complain to no end after she made him her b*tch in a match, too... lol

 

[IronMonster]

That's a copy-paste of the "Mods Say Not For Your Eyes" message. Dunno why it got nuked, I remember it as a pretty useful thread...

Works fine for me

 

[albin25]

I generally tend to operate operate on the "QCG-2" principle...
....Quick or Cheap or Good, you can only pick 2.

ie; you want it now and you want quality...ain't gonna be cheap
you want it cheaper and you want quality...prepare to find a good-used or wait for a clearance.

 

[Diamondback]

Works fine for me

Maybe I'm in a different usergroup than you guys, with different privileges--I tried from a different browser where I don't have a login cookie and it prompted for user/pass. @Joe Link @Kruejl @AndyinEverson any idea what's going on there, mods?

 

[Alexx1401]

Maybe I'm in a different usergroup than you guys, with different privileges--I tried from a different browser where I don't have a login cookie and it prompted for user/pass. @Joe Link @Kruejl @AndyinEverson any idea what's going on there, mods?

Worked for me too so now telling why a glitch when you try. As mentioned it was just linking to part of the thread about how low prices could go. As to thread I have several VERY cheap dots I swap around but they are just for fun. Also only used on handguns and PCC's. If I bought another AR I would spend at least a couple bills if not more for that. For me it's playing. The set up for protections (PCC's) are just iron sights of course. Same with hand guns for this.

As for shaming I have to say I have seen a LOT, and I do mean a LOT of this. Don't remember much of it here but on other forums yes. When I have managed to get a no gun person to buy a gun for home it's a hand gun. Always teach them from a .22 up. Then when they want to buy if all they can afford is a couple bills I see nothing wrong with that. FAR better than going with nothing till they can afford. They are much maligned but I still have the first Kel-Tec I ever bought, a P-11. Leaves a lot to be desired but it has never failed to work. Those Sky (forgot the correct spelling) are another. Many have one or two and swear by them.

Now if someone asks about an AR I have always told them if they can get into a budget one right now great. They are easy to play around with later. The price on AR's is so shocking low right now it has tempted me to buy one and I don't even want one

 

[pigiron]

Maybe I'm in a different usergroup than you guys, with different privileges--I tried from a different browser where I don't have a login cookie and it prompted for user/pass. @Joe Link @Kruejl @AndyinEverson any idea what's going on there, mods?

Sub 400 Doesn't work for me, affordable pistol does.

 

[Kruel J]

Maybe I'm in a different usergroup than you guys, with different privileges--I tried from a different browser where I don't have a login cookie and it prompted for user/pass. @Joe Link @Kruejl @AndyinEverson any idea what's going on there, mods?

Opt in for that section.

 

[2A2Dend]

We all walk before we ride a bike. We ride a bike before we drive a car, generally speaking.
Point is, they're there with us on the ready

 

[Diamondback]

Opt in for that section.

@Kruejl , I am opted-in--maybe it's a Supporter Only thing or something.

 

[Caveman Jim]

My Vortex Strikefire works just fine on my Bushmaster carbine with an Adams Arms piston kit.