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I tend to be a realist. Sooner or later the ATF or a state attorney general is going to take them to court and have them shut down. They might win in the end if they can afford the legal fees.
 
Don't drink that Kool aid. It's just a matter of time before the ATF comes down on the FRT.

I'm not saying they won't. I'm addressing the point of why they don't ship to certain states. They're gray area and nobody wants to the the test dummy. Binary triggers were best addressed in this thread on Reddit

Here's the post that I think applies the most:

dircs said:
Oh boy, here we go. Standard disclaimer, not legal advice, not your attorney, etc etc.

First, the answer: binary triggers are not expressly legal or illegal in Washington. I have heard requests for clarification have been made to the AG and no answer was given, but I cannot confirm this as true or not.

Here's why:

RCW 9.41.010 defines machine gun differently than 26 U.S. Code § 5845. Specifically:

[RCW](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.010):

>(18) "Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, and fired therefrom at the rate of five or more shots per second.

[USC](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845):

>The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

I put the relevant difference in bold.

The ATF has [approved binary triggers](https://www.facebook.com/franklin.armory/posts/recently-we-received-a-response-from-the-atf-regarding-our-binary-firing-system-/598927733573632/) under the federal definition (Franklin Armory facebook post on the subject, sorry that's the most authoritative source I could quickly find), so no questions there.

As to the state, the question remains whether each action of the trigger is a separate "press" of the trigger. There is no legal answer to this. There is no court case that addresses this. Manufacturers do not want the liability, so they do not sell to Washington. The majority of the legislature is not interested in any expansion of firearm ownership and therefore will not be clarifying the statute in a way most here would consider positive. The AG's office is demonstrably opposed to even maintaining current firearm rights, so no reasonable explanation will come from them.

Personally, I think its a reasonable interpretation that a binary trigger is legal in Washington. You press the trigger towards you to fire, a spring presses the trigger away from you on release to fire. Two separate presses.

With that being said, the bottom line is that unless you are willing to be charged with a felony and fight this up to the state Supreme Court, which is another organization in Washington which is not particularly friendly to expansion of firearm rights, you don't want to own a binary trigger. I cannot afford to be and do not want to be that person, so I do not own and do not recommend anyone else in Washington own a binary trigger.
 
I tend to be a realist. Sooner or later the ATF or a state attorney general is going to take them to court and have them shut down. They might win in the end if they can afford the legal fees.
They've, that guy who owns the company, probably has quite the bankroll given he's sold thousands of triggers that cost him $50 for $400 a pop. America F yeah
 
They've, that guy who owns the company, probably has quite the bankroll given he's sold thousands of triggers that cost him $50 for $400 a pop. America F yeah
If they are smart, they won't keep all those cookies in one jar. So when they have their assets seized, they make it out with a good amount of $$$$$.
 
I guess the hammer and the trigger are 2 separate pieces. But it doesn't change anything. There is no disconnector. There's a notch in the base of The hammer that keeps the hammer cocked. The only way to release it is to pull the trigger which you can't do unless the bolt goes into battery and trips the lever that causes interference which prevents the trigger from being pulled. the trip lever in no way functions like an auto sear and there is no modification that would even allow that. An auto sear would have to keep the hammer cocked at some point in the cycle. The only thing that will get this trigger banned is if they some how are able to keep the bump stock ban in place. This trigger for sure uses recoil energy to reset the trigger which is basically the back bone of the bump stock ban however this trigger is some how skating under the radar. It's kind of ironic because they worded the bump stock ban brilliantly and bump stocks were pieces of bubblegum and now this trigger is out which is absolutely brilliant and it's skating under the radar.
The hammer and the trigger one piece? There's a hammer and there's a trigger. There's a disconnectors of sorts although it's a different design. It functions differently than an M16 trigger to be sure but in neither does the shooter release the trigger. The key being in both the carrier causes the trigger or hammer to be released while still under trigger tension. By the companies own admission no sample was given to the ATF for approval. It's a matter of time.
 
It most certainly does not use the kinetic energy of recoil to actuate the trigger. As long as you are pulling the trigger you could hand cycle that baby as slow as humanly possible just like you could with a traditional M16 and it would still actuate. It is not a bump trigger.

I gotta ask. Do you own one cause we're talking about different things.
 
Last Edited:
The kinetic energy of the recoil is stored in the buffer spring and then released again when the bolt goes into battery. So ya the energy is coming from the buffer spring but it originated as a recoil impulse from a fired round. To be honest I would say the wording in the bump stock ban more accurately describes this trigger than it describes the bump stock itself.
 
The kinetic energy of the recoil is stored in the buffer spring and then released again. So ya the energy is coming from the buffer spring but it originated as a recoil impulse from a fired round.
Yeah the exact sme way an M16 actuates. You could push the carrier with your fingers an inch a week. It would do the same thing. Bolt closes, hammer falls as long as you are pulling the trigger.
Do you own one?
 
Last Edited:
Yeah the exact same way an M16 actuates. You could push it with your fingers an inch a week. It would do the same thing
Do you own one
I used to have 2 but sold one kinda wish I would've kept it. I wanted to put it in a cmmg 9mm that takes colt mags. The one I have now lives in my colt 11.5" upper pistol build with a generic lower.
 
I used to have 2 but sold one kinda wish I would've kept it. I wanted to put it in a cmmg 9mm that takes colt mags. The one I have now lives in my colt 11.5" upper pistol build with a generic lower.
So lets dispense with the kinetic energy bump trigger theory if you have one. You know it doesnt actually work that way.

Lets run through the steps of what happens in cycle starting with a round in the chamber bolt closed...


1.Pull trigger
2.Trigger sear releases hammer
3. Usual AR bolt unlock with gas pushing the carrier hustle. Bolt carrier travels to the rear.
4. Ramp on bolt pushes hammer back and down.
5. Hammer pushes on cammed top of trigger pushing trigger in an arc so that the trigger pad moved forward.
6. Safety sear located where an auto sear normally sits locks trigger forward. Hammer is locked by trigger sear.
7. Bolt carrier travels to the rear, stops and starts to move forward.
8. Just as the bolt closes and the carrier comes to a rest the sear trip of the bolt carrier hits the safety sear . Since pressure is still on the trigger pad the trigger is released. It all starts over again.

Kinetic energy of the carrier has nothing to do with it other than it provides the energy for automatic operation just like an M16 operates. . It can be manually cycled to do the same thing over and over again. When I say just like and M16 there is a difference in the mechanical operation but not in how the gun operates. As long as the trigger is pulled the gun continues to fire just like with an M16 where as long as the trigger is pulled the gun continues to fire when in automatic mode. There is a pulsing of the trigger. Thats it. Its not the same as a bumpstock . Its not a bump trigger any more than an M16 trigger setup is a bump trigger.

Get them while you can. The days are numbered to lose them in boating accidents.
 
I mean what your saying makes sense but what makes you think they will get banned other than the fact that politicians are bubblegums.
The ATF hasnt evaluated one that I know of. Rare breed certainly didnt send them a sample. One they do get one in their hands , if they havent (?) already , esecially if someone does something inappropriate with one its over.
 
I have one I picked up for an ar 45 I am building but the lower has been delayed again, they are saying 15 more weeks,
I would part with it for 600$ if your interested? Send me pm
 
IMHO, binary and FRT FCGs and bumpstocks aren't anything I would want in a serious fighting rifle. They work just fine on a video, but in a real situation of existential peril they increase the chances of a malf. They require a different set of learned behaviors from a "regular" autoloader, which is just what I don't need with my life on the line.
 
IMHO, binary and FRT FCGs and bumpstocks aren't anything I would want in a serious fighting rifle. They work just fine on a video, but in a real situation of existential peril they increase the chances of a malf. They require a different set of learned behaviors from a "regular" autoloader, which is just what I don't need with my life on the line.
When are you going to be in a serious firefight
 
Since I hijacked the hell out of this thread I guess I will bring the main question back into focus. If I were to say roll up to Washington to go shooting with my ar pistol that has a frt trigger installed how smart would I be? Is this something that would cause legal problems or what because as far as I know binaries are outlawed there I would assume they wouldn't like the frt either.
 

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