Is NWF against sarcastic posts?

[1337BaldEagle]

I changed the title of the post due to it being harsh, uncalled for, wrong context and plain wrong choice of words.
For this I am sorry to Joe and anyone else it may have upset.

My only question is where has all the "American/Un - American" stuff come from? Certaindeaf said "It's the American way" in the third post but the context seems to have changed now?

I think it stemmed from your original title having to do with "NWF against 1st Amendment" If you interject the American Bill of Rights into the argument your going to get people arguing whether or not it is an "American way."

 

[waltermitty]

i'll bet a brick of 22LR that the OP would not think twice about selling their house for whatever the market will bear and not settle for what other houses are selling for in the neighborhood.

 

[Whitey375]

You always have the right to free speech, you also have to accept any consequences that may result.

 

[iusmc2002]

i'll bet a brick of 22LR that the OP would not think twice about selling their house for whatever the market will bear and not settle for what other houses are selling for in the neighborhood.

Apples and oranges. Houses are all different. Owners have all put different amounts of work into the houses. Ammo is pretty much the same (when you stay in the same category of ammunition) and there is very little actual owner time/work investment put into the ammo once it has left the store shelves and is in the possession of someone. Maybe they tumble it and make it nice and shiny, and that's worth extra to them. I don't know. But to try and compare ammo to houses or cars or other items that an owner has put time and money into, thereby changing the value of the house or car, is silly.

Then again, if all the houses in a neighborhood are all the same design, and have the same amount of work put into them by the owners, THEN your argument might hold water.....

 

[1337BaldEagle]

My main point is that .22lr is truly worth more than what stores are selling it at. Why? Because currently it is sparse. And no, someone buying it off of shelves and reselling it is not making it more sparse. You can still buy it every day for $70some bucks a brick. It's just sparse at the price your willing to pay. It would have been no different than if a store raised it's prices to reflect what true market value is. True market value is what people are willing to pay for it, plain and simple. Will production catch up with demand? Yes. It is only a matter of time, and at such time 22lr will be worth less.

I truly, don't see the problem with this. This is basic free market economics.

I believe I shared an example in another thread how charging true market value actually is more ethical than under charging when there is a shortage. It naturally distributes resources evenly, by forcing people to buy only what they "need" and not what they "want." Which is one thing that I think applies when talking about .22lr. I will rarely go out and shoot 500 rounds of .22lr at once but I wouldn't be so bold as to say that others wouldn't. But if retail had charged true value in the first place people would have only bought what they needed instead of buying 15000 rounds when there was no limits on how much to buy.

If you really want to blame someone this is the order it should go in:

1) Ammo and Firearms Salesman of the decade, Scumbag, Mr. President Obama.
He created a situation where we as Americans felt like Our Rights would be soon infringed.

2) Manufacturers
They have accepted large orders from multiple federal agencies that have tied up ammo components, limiting the amount that can be found in the privet sector. Remember that the DHS may not have bid for .22lr but if a company is producing something else that uses components (and not just powder and such but the chemicals to make powder and such) then they make that at the expense of others.

Further more they did not prepare the private sector for such a shortage ahead of accepting a Fed order.

3) Retailers
Retailers, in fear of keeping faithful customers from burning them like witches, knowing a shortage would be upon them, kept the price for ammo the same. This allowed the hoarders (whom I really don't blame due to #1) to stock up for years, or what they want, not necessarily what they need. Further it allows "scalpers" to scalp in the first place.


This is just my outlook on it.




Eagle

 

[JohnnyD]

It's funny I see more and more thread whining about the prices of .22lr. In my opinion if you don't want to pay the price then don't. It's not like there are not other calipers to shoot. I dumped quite a bit of my money into my 10/22 right before this all happened and have only ran a few 1000 rounds through it. Am I to cheap to pay the high prices? Yes I am. So the last few months the 10/22 sits in the safe and the 556 and the 9mms go to the range with me.

 

[1337BaldEagle]

It's not like there are not other calipers to shoot.

You shoot calipers!?!




Eagle

 

[JohnnyD]

Damn you iPhone lol ill shoot what Ever is left by the last guy before I haul their crap out lol

 

[deadeye]

Damn you iPhone lol ill shoot what Ever is left by the last guy before I haul their crap out lol

I just figured you were MEASURING up the performance while BRAKING it in.......

 

[GrpCapMandrake]

My main point is that .22lr is truly worth more than what stores are selling it at. Why? Because currently it is sparse. And no, someone buying it off of shelves and reselling it is not making it more sparse. You can still buy it every day for $70some bucks a brick. It's just sparse at the price your willing to pay. It would have been no different than if a store raised it's prices to reflect what true market value is. True market value is what people are willing to pay for it, plain and simple. Will production catch up with demand? Yes. It is only a matter of time, and at such time 22lr will be worth less.

I truly, don't see the problem with this. This is basic free market economics.

I believe I shared an example in another thread how charging true market value actually is more ethical than under charging when there is a shortage. It naturally distributes resources evenly, by forcing people to buy only what they "need" and not what they "want." Which is one thing that I think applies when talking about .22lr. I will rarely go out and shoot 500 rounds of .22lr at once but I wouldn't be so bold as to say that others wouldn't. But if retail had charged true value in the first place people would have only bought what they needed instead of buying 15000 rounds when there was no limits on how much to buy.

If you really want to blame someone this is the order it should go in:

1) Ammo and Firearms Salesman of the decade, Scumbag, Mr. President Obama.
He created a situation where we as Americans felt like Our Rights would be soon infringed.

2) Manufacturers
They have accepted large orders from multiple federal agencies that have tied up ammo components, limiting the amount that can be found in the privet sector. Remember that the DHS may not have bid for .22lr but if a company is producing something else that uses components (and not just powder and such but the chemicals to make powder and such) then they make that at the expense of others.

Further more they did not prepare the private sector for such a shortage ahead of accepting a Fed order.

3) Retailers
Retailers, in fear of keeping faithful customers from burning them like witches, knowing a shortage would be upon them, kept the price for ammo the same. This allowed the hoarders (whom I really don't blame due to #1) to stock up for years, or what they want, not necessarily what they need. Further it allows "scalpers" to scalp in the first place.


This is just my outlook on it.




Eagle

I respect your opinion Eagle but disagree with it. Here is why (not that it matters to you but it makes me feel better for expressing it)

1. Blaming Obama for the fact that you or others got the willies is crediting that man with more power than he should have. Breathe deeply a few times and realize the boogie man is not under your bed. Obama may be accountable for a good many things, but lets keep it in the realm of reality. If people got the willies and started paranoid panic purchasing, well that's on them.

2. Blaming government contracts sucking up resources is also a red herring. The government issues contracts every day for large quantities of all sorts of products. I don't seem to see them in short supply. Additionally I am pretty sure this is not the first time the DHS, USN, USA, USAF, FBI USMC, and every law enforcement agency in the country has ordered large quantities of ammunition. Hell the "War on Terror" has been going on for a very long time through two presidents and this is the first time the .22 lr has been so damn scarce.

3. A retailer that does not choose to abuse the market like many others are willing to do is not to blame. The fact that I can buy .22 lr ammo at a .04 cents a round from a major retailer means that wholesale prices have not really changed from the manufacturer. That would additionally disprove your point #2. This leads me to suspect that the issue of pricing exists after the goods enter the world of the consumer. Which in turn leads me to conclude that some people are still ethical (I know, I am just as surprised as you are), and that a good portion of folks are asshats (this I am not surprised by) that like to pray on the paranoia from point one. But it gets dicey trying to discern exactly where that asshatery sits. It could be unethical wholesalers selling to smaller dealers that then have no choice in the high price because they have to recoup their costs. It could also be some dealers, hoarders and other profiteers exploiting a situation for their own personal gain.

In the end I stand by my belief that the biggest threat to gun owners in this country is themselves and those that profit from them directly. The ones predisposition to fear and panic and the others ceaseless desire to promote and sell that fear is mindboggling to watch sometimes. I give a pass to those states where people actually experienced a direct threat on their rights (NY, MD, CO, CT, etc) To the rest I would urge you to breathe and then do that a bunch more. The market will rebound only if people settle down. Don't pay crazy prices, be patient and purchase ammo at regular prices from ethical sellers when available. Go read a book, go binge watch a TV show online, take that photography class you always wanted to take, but whatever you do stop paying crazy prices for ammo. You only hurt yourself, the hobby and other members of the shooting sports and rights community (new and old alike).

 

[1337BaldEagle]

I won't argue point by point, but at least would you agree that:

.22lr is probably the easiest round to buy more than you "need" or more than you will shoot in the nearest foreseeable future? Leastways, I would say that was true. It still is when you can buy 1600 rounds when you find it. When you do find it you find way more than (at least myself) shoot in one sitting. You had people who simply because it was Obama that go reelected ran out and bought a case of 5.56 and since .22lr was so cheap, they also bought the whole shelf. This happened country wide and started the whole thing (again not that I blame them). When a whole country suddenly has the absence of .22lr on the retail shelves there is no way that manufacturers can keep up. Manufacturers rely on stock pile to be kept on the side of the retailers to deal with market fluctuations. It just happens that this fluctuation happened so intensely. Manufacturers have been playing catchup ever since. If retailers raised there prices to true market value scalpers wouldn't be able to make a margin. Ammo would start to build up on the shelves again, instead of Gunbroaker. And once that buffer in in place again, then price can come down. But this has to happen on a national level or it wont work. During a shortage someone has to bite the bullet to get the market back on track. Or this will last a lot longer than it ought to.


Eagle

 

[GrpCapMandrake]

I won't argue point by point, but at least would you agree that:

.22lr is probably the easiest round to buy more than you "need" or more than you will shoot in the nearest foreseeable future? Leastways, I would say that was true. It still is when you can buy 1600 rounds when you find it. When you do find it you find way more than (at least myself) shoot in one sitting. You had people who simply because it was Obama that go reelected ran out and bought a case of 5.56 and since .22lr was so cheap, they also bought the whole shelf. This happened country wide and started the whole thing (again not that I blame them). When a whole country suddenly has the absence of .22lr on the retail shelves there is no way that manufacturers can keep up. Manufacturers rely on stock pile to be kept on the side of the retailers to deal with market fluctuations. It just happens that this fluctuation happened so intensely. Manufacturers have been playing catchup ever since. If retailers raised there prices to true market value scalpers wouldn't be able to make a margin. Ammo would start to build up on the shelves again, instead of Gunbroaker. And once that buffer in in place again, then price can come down. But this has to happen on a national level or it wont work. During a shortage someone has to bite the bullet to get the market back on track. Or this will last a lot longer than it ought to.


Eagle

I agree in large part with what your saying. I also think we are generally both on the same side of this issue. People over-react and start purchasing in large quantity anything they can get their hands on. Which in turn causes the inventory shortage issue you stated and further creates more fear and panic. It is surely an evil cycle. I am just not sure that a price increase from the retail side of things will bring prices down in the long run. My concern would be that it would create a world in which all agree that the round is worth more than it really is and in the end market prices will never return to the land of reality. To hell with it at least your plan has a foundation in logic. Reasoning with people about not feeding the beast doesn't seem to work so perhaps it is time for a different approach.

 

[coastal steelheader]

I'd like to know how the hell my latest thread can get locked , when the story is about one of the biggest enemies to firearm owners there has ever been? We should all be using this like bludgeon against Pelosi

But no...
Non-firearm political discussion is prohibited.
There are many different people here with many different opinions, ideologies, and viewpoints. Like religion, discussing these issues here is likely to offend others or cause division within the community. We need to focus on the topic that brings us together, not issues that are all but certain to divide us. This rule applies to the site in its entirety.


Btw I'd respond directly to the Moderator that locked the thread, but I can't figure out how the hell to empty my inbox with this new format so that I could have asked you directly.

 

[ripcity]

Some people love to cut and paste the same crap over and over. I'm on the same page as you, there should be open discussions on these types of topics.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Some ammo is worth it, within reason. For example, Norma TAC-22 is excellent and my Ruger 22/45 loves it. In times like these I'd have no issue with 45-50 bucks for a brick of it if I was low or out.

So- a high price to one person might be reasonable to another if that ammo is for a particular purpose and delivers performance at a high level.

 

[Mikej]

I'd like to know how the hell my latest thread can get locked , when the story is about one of the biggest enemies to firearm owners there has ever been? We should all be using this like bludgeon against Pelosi

But no...
Non-firearm political discussion is prohibited.
There are many different people here with many different opinions, ideologies, and viewpoints. Like religion, discussing these issues here is likely to offend others or cause division within the community. We need to focus on the topic that brings us together, not issues that are all but certain to divide us. This rule applies to the site in its entirety.


Btw I'd respond directly to the Moderator that locked the thread, but I can't figure out how the hell to empty my inbox with this new format so that I could have asked you directly.

???

I thought it was a thread about religion.....Also on the No-No list.

And to contact the Mod in question simply go to the lower part of the post toward the left side and click on the word "Report" that should allow you send something to the Mod in question.

Mike

 

[coastal steelheader]

???

I thought it was a thread about religion.....Also on the No-No list.

And to contact the Mod in question simply go to the lower part of the post toward the left side and click on the word "Report" that should allow you send something to the Mod in question.

Mike

My bad - just a little frustrated trying to figure out this new board and its features.

 

[Diamondback]

Simple--don't like someone's asking price and think it's a BS ripoff, don't buy it, and make a mental note of it, and if someone asks [EDIT to complete thought: tell them what you think but stress that that's YOUR opinion] . Nothing COMPELS you to buy $X worth of stuff from Classifieds as part of your membership dues... If they see enough non-takers, they'll either lower their asking price or move the listing somewhere else more likely to pony up.

 

[Mikej]

Thanks for the GOOD, morning chuckle Diamondback!

 

[Frankenrifle]

The moderator who deleted your threads should have let you know why.

That, right there, is the crux of the matter.

Also I read the ammo forums nearly every day and end up putting so many .22 scalpers on ignore that I'm surprised I can see ANYONE'S posts still. Yes "buy low, sell high" is perfectly fine, and good business, but if your mark-up is more than 100% on your product I'm never going to deal with you...ever.