Is it worth reloading semi-auto rifle?

[CA of K]

I'm reloading for older DSA STG58 FAL that's like new only 160 total rounds fired

I have reloaded 30.06 for bolt action and 30-30 for a Contender but semi is concerning me in both safety and cost.

Out-of-battery and slam firing (mommy I'm scared)

Special dies, Primers, Powders, and brass prep tools etc.

Have purchased;

• RCBS small base X series dies
  
  
• Lee head-space gauge
  
  
• Once fired Sellier & Bellot brass (which makes me nervous in its self)
  
  
• Lee Primer pocket pocket uniforming tool
  

Waiting to purchase powder and bullets

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[Velzey]

I have run a steady diet of reload thru several FAL's. Never a problem.

 

[xlsbob]

I have several semi auto rifles and I'm embarrassed to say I didn't know they needed special equipment to load for them. Other than my 308 Garand everybody else shares ammo if they are same caliber, either bolt or auto. I don't have a FAL yet but I'm always looking for a good deal on one.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Hummm...... Back when I reloaded, started reloading I should say, I started with .223 for my Mini-14. Gosh! I never knew I was in danger!!! A friend and I learned from books, figuring it out as we went! It truly is not rocket science! Load them to specs, they will work.

 

[edslhead]

Lots of 223 and 308 here. No problems.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

i load .223 for my ARs by the 1000 all in a jr2 single stage press. i dont even use small base dies. never had a problem. the biggest PITA is swaging the primer pockets. i have a die for that too.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Never had any issues with reloading any .308 let alone for the FAL's! Mine like handloads just as much as any other rifle, and that DSA will really wake up with a good worked up load! Go get yer self a bunch of M-1A match and after shooting it all up, use your brass for reloads! Nothing special needed besides the basic components, no need to do any thing outside the norm for the FAL, just take your time and follow the load data and slowly work your way to .308 nirvana!

 

[CA of K]

thanks all. that's what I get for getting lost in the net-ter land

 

[ma96782]

IMHO, just approach your reloading for semi autos with the same care that you would when loading for a bolt action.

Since you mention "slam fires."

Slam fires

Slam-fires are an ever-present danger with Service Rifles (particularly with the M1 and M14 family). A slam-fire occurs when a round discharges as the bolt is closed. This can result in an accidental discharge with no other damage, or it can virtually destroy the rifle and injure the shooter. The deciding factor here is whether the rifle is fully in battery. Unfortunately, most slam-fire incidents are due to improperly assembled handloads, sometimes combined with poor gun-handling techniques. A few simple precautions can decrease the chances of a slam-fire.

Virtually all U.S. military Service Rifles utilize firing pins that rest freely within the bolt. Referred to as a floating firing pin, it will actually strike the primer lightly when the bolt is closed. This results in a slight dimple in the primer, which is plainly visible if the unfired round is extracted. This isn't a problem with military ammunition because they use primers with thicker cups specifically because of this. However, it can be hazardous with the more sensitive commercial primers. The risk increases with high primers, headspace problems, and poor gun-handling technique. These risks are covered in greater detail elsewhere in this section. Please pay particular attention to the sections about rifle manipulation, sizing and priming.

Out of Battery Fires

An out-of-battery firing occurs when the bolt is not fully closed and locked. This is less of a problem in the M16/AR-15 series of rifles due to their bolt design, but it can easily happen with the M1 or M14/M1A rifles. Several safety features are built into these rifles specifically to prevent this from happening. However, these safeties can be defeated, and the condition needs to be understood.

In the case of original G.I. M1s, we are dealing with rifles that are at least 50 years old. Most have seen hard service on battlefields around the world, often in incredibly harsh conditions. Those that have remained in the U.S. inventory (and were subsequently sold through the DCM/CMP) often have been rebuilt at least once, sometimes more. While the design is one of the best ever fielded, the safety features are mechanical in nature. That means that out-of-spec parts — whether caused by wear, poorly manufactured (after-market) parts or improper assembly — can override these safety features. This will become more of an issue as time goes by since fewer gunsmiths will be thoroughly trained in the M1/M14 Service Rifles.

Rifle Manipulation and Its Role in Causing Slam-fires and Out of Battery Fires

Most shooters, particularly those who have plunked down a lot of hard-earned cash for a new Match gun, are inclined to be careful with their rifles.

And that's good — to a point. We need to remember that Service Rifles were designed for combat conditions. They are robust, sturdy and durable. They should be handled with care in regard to their sights and bedded areas, and of course, always with an eye toward safety. But they shouldn't be "babied" in operation. Many new shooters find it a bit disconcerting to see and hear the heavy slamming of the bolt as it is released to strip and feed the first round from the magazine. That is exactly how they were designed to operate, and any attempt to change it will cause problems. This is most commonly seen in shooters attempting to "ride" the bolt home by grasping the op rod handle and easing it forward. Don't do it. Let the bolt slam home with its full force, stripping the round from the magazine and chambering it in one swift motion.

Another often-attempted technique is to place the cartridge directly into the chamber before seating the bolt. This poses two serious potential problems. If the bolt is allowed to slam home on a cartridge that is fully inserted into the chamber, there is a real possibility of a slam-fire. This is rare with military ammo, but the potential increases with reloaded or commercial ammunition. (The reasons for this are covered more extensively in the sections on primers and headspace.) The second potential problem can occur if the bolt is ridden home slowly and allowed to seat. The bolt may not be fully rotated into battery. This can result in an out-of-battery firing and can be destructive to both the rifle and the shooter. Despite the safety features built into the rifles to prevent this from happening, they can—and occasionally do—fail. Again the solution is simple; allow the bolt to strip the round from the magazine and chamber with its full force.

This is almost impossible with the M16/AR-15 family of rifles when long-range ammunition is used. This is due to both the OAL of the ammo (which is generally too long to fit a standard magazine), and the difficulty of pushing a round down into a seated magazine through the smallish ejection port. Fortunately, these rifles are less prone to such slam fires than the M1/M14 series. The key word here is "less"; they can still happen. Keep your hand away from the ejection port when the bolt is released, and follow the recommendations concerning priming and sizing. This should decrease the potential for trouble. Some competitive suppliers, such as Sinclair, sell a special follower for single-loading the AR family. They make the task a bit easier, and we heartily recommend using them where applicable.

Where the M1 and M14 are concerned, a slam-fire or an out-of-battery firing is an extremely serious occurrence. Stick to loading them only from the magazine. While this isn't difficult with the M14, it can be troublesome with the M1 and its en-bloc clip arrangement. There are several aftermarket clips available that reduce the rifle's capacity, while still allowing the rifle to be fed as it should be. At least two of these are intended specifically for the High Power competitor: a two-round clip and a modified single-round clip that stays in the rifle upon firing. With this clip in place, the bolt locks to the rear after each shot, and the next round is manually snapped into the magazine before releasing the bolt. When the stage is completed, the clip can be unlatched from the magazine and will pop out normally. We strongly recommend their use for safety and because they make shooting the Garand a lot easier.

Taken From

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm

OK, Ok, ok....you said FAL but safety and knowledge are important. Make sure that you use a headspace gauge when you resize your brass.

And, if you're planning to use the same ammo for a bolt gun note this story:

OK, I use to buy 1x fired 7.62 x51 mm NATO brass from a recycle place. They probably got it from the base. Back then, M60s were what most of the ammo was shot out of.

Anyway, the brass was difficult to re-size. I believe that the M60's chambers were "generous." Hey, it's a machine gun.

FF today.....the surplus LC brass is probably coming from a M240.

Anyway, I still use a F/L re-sizer and got into the habit of using a gauge to test my re-sized brass. Like this one, only in .308 Win.

L.E. Wilson Case Length Headspace Ga 223 Remington (http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/456614/le-wilson-case-length-headspace-gauge-223-remington)

STORY:

My reloaded .308 Win ammo fit my M1a easily. But, when I tried the same ammo in my bolt action Rem 700 (.308 Win)....well, it didn't chamber. Humm.....ok, so I screwed down the re-sizing die down a bit more. The new ammo is just passing, in the gauge test. Remember, there is a high and a low cut, to test for re-sized brass to still be acceptable. Now, the ammo would work in both rifles.

Bottom line: chambers vary and a little bit could be all the difference.

And......"cam over," while re-sizing. I hope you're doing that...RIGHT?

Aloha, Mark

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Well CA, if Utube existed back then I sure would have used it!
Heck, this was years before PC's were around, either! I get what you're saying though, the sheer volume of information on the net can intimidate you enough to freeze you in your tracks!

 

[ma96782]

And....you don't have to always have a "special military primer" when loading for a semi auto rifle.

Note what CCI says..........

CCI® No. 34 and No. 41 MILITARY RIFLE PRIMERS

Military-style semi-auto rifles seldom have firing pin retraction springs. If care is not used in assembling ammunition, a "slam-fire" can occur before the bolt locks. The military arsenals accomplish this using different techniques and components—including different primer sensitivity specifications—from their commercial counterparts. CCI makes rifle primers for commercial sale that matches military sensitivity specs that reduce the chance of a slam-fire when other factors go out of control*. If you're reloading for a military semi-auto, look to CCI Military primers.
*Effective slam-fire prevention requires more than special primers. Headspace, chamber condition, firing pin shape and protrusion, bolt velocity, cartridge case condition, and other factors can affect slam-fire potential.

So.........it's NOT only about "special primers."

Q: Then.......how do all those folks who don't use special primers get by?

A: Perhaps, they have a better technique?

From the Speer manual:

Repriming is a simple, but critical, step that reloaders often do not give enough attention to. In order to gain optimum primer sensitivity, it must be seated firmly to the bottom of the primer pocket. But this doesn't mean using so much force that the primer cup is deformed. When primers are properly seated, the top of the primer is from .005" to .008" below flush with the case head. The purpose of this is to assure that the primer anvil legs are in firm contact with the bottom of the primer pocket. If they are not so seated, it requires an average of 59% greater firing pin blow to give reliable ignition. This much extra force simply isn't available in many firearms.

Analysis of hundreds of handload misfires complaints show that the vast majority are caused by insufficient primer seating.

You can check............by running your finger along the bottoms of your cases. You'll learn the "feel of the primers" as they should be seated below flush.

Q: What about using Magnum Primers? They are said to have a thicker cup. Thus, better at preventing a "slam fire."

A: Well.......some primer manufacturers may (or may not) use a different cup from the "standard cup." Read the product descriptions from the various manufacturers of primers.

Then.........on the subject of the Magnum Primer............GENERALLY, I believe this..............

From the Speer manual.

Magnum Primers

Magnum primers contain a greater amount and/or slightly different explosive mix than is used in standard primers. On ignition, magnum primers give longer burning, hotter flames. Their use is recommended for (1) any ammunition that will be used at or below zero degrees F., (2) with most Ball powders and (3) with slow burning rifle powders like MRP and IMR 4831 in very large cases. Magnum pistol primers often will give more uniform velocities in magnum handgun cartridges loaded with large charges or slow powders like 296, 2400 and H-110. Magnum primers may be used with faster burning or easy-to-ignite powders, but normally there will be no advantage in doing so. As when changing other components, it is advisable to reduce powder charge weights on initial loading with magnum primers.

IMHO.......there are several ways to deal with the "slam fire" issue. So, now that you have a little more information............use what techniques and products you're comfortable with. And, don't forget that it could also be your firearm.

Note: About the substitution of components.

The "recommended primer" is the primer that your reloading manual has specified with the loads listed in their book. Note that all books will caution about "substitution of components."

Read..........How do changing various components affect chamber pressure and velocity?

Miscellaneous Questions 4 (http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscelld.htm#components)

And for liability reasons, I'll add..............

Quote:

Never mix or substitute components.
Every lot of powder, primers, bullets, brass, and any other components can differ significantly. Different manufacturer's components differ substantially. For example, never substitute Federal brand primers for Magtech, and expect the same results. One primer may be fine with your load, but another brand may cause extreme pressures with the same load. Don't substitute magnum primers for standard primers for the same reason. Just because two brands of powder have similar characteristics, that does not mean they are interchangeable or mixable. Every time you finish with a lot of a component, you will have to back off the load slightly and start over, checking for overpressure signs, just as you did when you first worked the load up. You are in essence working up a brand new load.

Taken from the Magtech web site.

Aloha, Mark

 

[HappyRoman]

I have loaded hundreds of 30 carbine, 308, and now 1000's of 223. Did not realize I was in dangerous territory.. All seemed to work fine.. I do case guage every round and trim before reload as necessary. I never load to top of book, and have worked well, even the 7mm-08, and 300 weatherby.

 

[CA of K]

Great info,most consensus appears that most would use CCI 200 if that was what they had on hand rather than going out and buying CCI 34s

 

[HappyRoman]

Slam fires happen not because of primers, but because of some problem with the firing pin spring, or the way the bolt is working, sticking, or ... Clean the rifle well, lub accordingly, and then check your firing pin spring. Have had several issues in 30+ yrs, but usually not the ammo. You must be sure that you do seat the primers well and not high. My .o2c

 

[ron]

I see you have a primer pocket uniforming tool. Good. A high
primer can be disastrous to an auto loader. And possible
injurious to the shooter.
A common reloading problem with auto loaders is not properly
sizing the brass. Setting up the sizing die to bring the
shoulder of the case down to spec. This can be measured
with the RCBS precision mic.
Garamd specific. Use powders of the correct burn rate as
to not overload the gas system. IMR 4064 or IMR 4895 are great
powders for the Garand. Use a SLED when single loading the rifle.
RCBS Precision Mic 308 Winchester (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/574297/rcbs-precision-mic-308-winchester)

 

[Ura-Ki]

Not to worry CA if it ain't broke yet, we can help ya break it real real good, then help ya fix it up even better! LOL Joking aside, if you ever need, just ask, lots of help here, and good on you for being careful and taking things slow, and asking questions!

 

[CA of K]

Appreciate it all, will be back (more ?s)

 

[Member 5605]

Great info,most consensus appears that most would use CCI 200 if that was what they had on hand rather than going out and buying CCI 34s

CCI uses a harder primer cup. I had and have no issues with slam fires in the AR-15 when I was loading bulk .223 to feed it.

 

[elsie]

My semi-auto is a 1980s era HK91. I've reloaded some pretty ugly stuff that it has mangled. I have never had a slam fire or case separation or any other problem out of the thousands of round I've reloaded for it. The worst thing that happened is neck cracks which at that point, the brass goes in the recycle bucket. It did not even change the level of accuracy for that round. It looks like you've done your homework and got the right stuff for reloading. And I've never used the milspec primers, just the standard CCI rifle primers.


elsie

 

[CA of K]

I figured i'll start with 43.5 gr.s of 4895 if available. I found 500 rd.s 308 M80 148GR FMJ for $95 including shipping.

Any better options?

Thanks a lot