Is it typical for indoor ranges to charge hidden fees for hitting the carrier?

[YotaNut12]

Also the cashier asked what I was shooting and had it been a pistol instead of rifle they would have waived it right then.

 

[EPS]

The carrier is like a foot above the Target and the target itself is held by a cardboard piece. Really to hit the carrier is not easy if you're actually trying to hit the target. I have exchanged messages with the owner and they don't take charging the fee lightly. In my situation I hit it at least 5 times (due to the lack of any sights on my AR) before realizing it and they only charged me for 1. They are really reasonable about it especially for new shooters and will help them get better so it doesn't happen again. It's not like it's a scheme to make more money like any business they expect a certain amount of damage as 'the cost of doing business'

Doesn't matter average person that goes to the range are new .
Rent a gun and do some shooting.
The range should know that there holders are going to get hit.

 

[Flymph]

Doesn't matter average person that goes to the range are new .
Rent a gun and do some shooting.
The range should know that there holders are going to get hit.

People also need to know they are responsible for where there bullets land, and there are consequences...

 

[YotaNut12]

Exactly! That is the lesson everyone should learn from this experience. Like I said numerous times it only happened because I fired my rifle with no sights. I accepted responsibility for that decision. I really believe that if you are actually trying to hit the target and not acting like Rambo or Yosemite Sam you don't need to worry about hitting the carrier. Just focus on hitting the target.

 

[km3044]

In reading several comments, not all of them, let me reply>
There are two signs in each of Safefire's three bays that show the rules, including warning of penalties for bullet strikes on the carrier.
Those same rules are posted in the lobby.
The waiver, that all visitors sign, warns of penalties.
That carrier contains a lot of electronics, radio receiver to receive commands from the control panel, motors to precisely move and position the carrier, computer to make all that work properly.
The carrier is protected by ballistic steel, but after numerous bullet strikes it can sustain/will damage.
As NRA firearms instruction states you are responsible for each bullet you fire.
Please shoot with care, everywhere, all the time.
NRA member
NRA instructor
Safefire RSO / instructor

 

[km3044]

I agree w this... to a point.

A shooting range's #1 priority is safety... that may or may not conflict w being a profitable business at times, but let's be real about it: there are risks involved. How closely do YOU monitor "strangers" when they show up at your favorite plinking spot? Or shooting w cats you've never shot w before?

They have rules for that and penalties for violating (willfully or not) those rules that can include fees or expulsion. The OP's beef was mostly centered around not being informed, and that's a legitimate beef.

However, the range personnel also have a duty to protect the business' assets and equipment. I believe THIS was where they dropped the ball and tried to pick up yardage on defense... fines and penalties are there to be a deterrant. If they're not made common knowledge through signage then they're nothing but an enforcement vehicle and have 0 effect until after-the-fact.

Then there's the issue of willful VS accidental. I have no doubt the OP didn't bounce a pill offa the carrier on purpose. But if you look at it from the range's point of view, he did bring a rifle (or carbine, whatever) and start chucking lead downrange with no sights... that could be viewed as irresponsible.

I think the real problem is the lack of information. I think EVERY range and firearms related business should have clear signage posted in conspicuous places 1) Four basics of gun safety. And 2) Clear verbiage as to range policy, especially as regards fines, fees, safety, etc*.

Take down some of the No Smoking signs, fer cryin' out loud... WE KNOW!


*NOT advocating govt regulation. Nope, not me, not EVER. Just good business practices... sometimes you have to accommodate the LCD.

The signs are there, two in each of their three bays and at least one in the lobby. And it is on the waiver, last paragraph.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I always have a black marker in muh range tote.

 

[nonsense]

Exactly! That is the lesson everyone should learn from this experience. Like I said numerous times it only happened because I fired my rifle with no sights. I accepted responsibility for that decision. I really believe that if you are actually trying to hit the target and not acting like Rambo or Yosemite Sam you don't need to worry about hitting the carrier. Just focus on hitting the target.

I'm pretty sure I was there shooting with my kids when you shot the carrier. The RSO was sure to show me that the plate didn't have any marks on it before I started shooting "so you won't be charged if someone else shot it". It was really busy that day so I can see how that detail might have been missed though.

I was a nervous because I was sighting in a new scope on our 22 and irons on a brand new AR. It's a bummer you fot charged but I can see why they set the fee at $50, just enough to not be ridiculously expensive but enough to make you pay attention to not hitting it.

At least you were there and not out at English pit where your bullets would have likely missed the berm and ended up God knows where.

It was my first time at SafeaFire and by far the best range I've ever been to. I recommend it to anyone.

 

[ob1]

This thread illustrates a number of reasons why I don't visit commercial ranges anymore. Mostly originating with wannabe RSO's, cut-throat fee's and management with predatory attitudes.

No thanks, I'll stick to the woods, fresh air, armed friends and the occasional tweaker.

 

[Flymph]

This thread illustrates a number of reasons why I don't visit commercial ranges anymore. Mostly originating with wannabe RSO's, cut-throat fee's and management with predatory attitudes.

No thanks, I'll stick to the woods, fresh air, armed friends and the occasional tweaker.

Safefire is probably the least of those things as far as indoor ranges go.

However, I'm generally a woods shooter myself. It's closer and I can afford to do it more.

 

[PenTurner]

It seems strange to me to have the expensive carrier computer travel down range. Wouldn't a better design be to have the computer stationary above you and have cables that move the target holder down range?

 

[Elf]

It seems strange to me to have the expensive carrier computer travel down range. Wouldn't a better design be to have the computer stationary above you and have cables that move the target holder down range?

Most of the ones that just go backwards and forwards are designed that way, but these units can also rotate the target on edge and have controllable lighting.

They are a bit more vulnerable than traditional target systems but the benefit is you can do more advanced drills. For the new shooter there isn't much difference (other than having to take care), but for the person that wants to keep advancing their skill set it is a huge difference.

The target computers come with preprogrammed sequences that make the target advance out to a certain distance, flip to visible for a few seconds and flip back, go further out, flip and flip back, etc. You can also program your own if you want to speed it up or change up the pattern. Invaluable for working on speeding up drawing from the holster and shooting accurately, which the range does allow after you pass a qualification or take their class. It also adds more fun and challenge to regular non-holster shooting.

 

[TKO]

Hindsight is 20/20 I was overly excited to finally get to shoot it. At least I am willing to admit it and I paid like a grown up should have. I do plan to install iron sights before I take it out again. I wouldn't have shot it outside hence why I went to an indoor range where all rounds would be contained. I take safety very seriously and I am working towards learning and growing as a safe proficient shooter. It still doesn't take away from my point that they need more adequate warning for such a hefty fee. I paid it because I had to, to get my ID back. I have calmed down quite a bit since yesterday and not so annoyed over it. I get that I should have read the rules before hand regardless of if they made me or not. It was my decision to pull the trigger and I really should have known better than to with no sights. I felt terrible and like an idiot for hitting the carrier repeatedly so really bad on both sides of the situation. I have had enough time to think about it and rationalize that I should be held responsible regardless of previous warning. Every gun owner is responsible for the damage they impose when they pull the trigger. I appreciate hearing your opinions about it and really at this point just glad I didn't damage the machine worse. I still hope they do a better job of warning ppl in the future so this doesn't happen to someone else but realistically how much more idiot-proof can it be? I really should have known better than to shoot with no sights and situations like this give all gun owners a bad reputation and just further fuels the gun grabbers agenda which none of us want.

 

[TKO]

Yota,
I'm sorry you had to pay. But every indoor range I've used always had
A fee for shooting anything but the target. Ask me how I know.
Since these incidences long ago, I always knew shooting something
other than than target will result in a extra fee.
You've stated that this was your first indoor range experience. I get
your beef.
Please be thankful it was just the armor. Can't take back that round
once it leaves the muzzle. It's a cheap lesson. Again sorry you weren't informed.
TKO

 

[OldTengu]

Went and did some shooting today, typically a woods shooter, also go to English pit from time to time. I enjoy being outside.

Ended up changing gears a bit and went to safefire. Hadn't been in an indoor range for a long time. Pleasant surprise, expected RO's to be overbearing, but these guys were friendly. Let me know straight away not to hit the carriers and why, and about the fee if I did. Because of this, I ended up aiming lower than I should have for my first few mags. Very enjoyable experience overall. Only complaint was that I grabbed ak mags that had steel impregnated ammo, and had to buy some there to test out the new ak. That's on me. Will likely be back, soon. Also learned that since my back injury in May (this was my first time shooting since before that), I have started pushing my pistol shots to the right. Started fixing that straight away.