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I was having a conversation with a friend about a Glock 19 that I've had for a while and the fact that it came with a Crimson Trace device on it. In the several months that I've owned it, I've never used the laser device at all. My friend asked me why and I told him that it wasn't necessary for my type of shooting. That led to more conversation about shooting styles, etc.
My personal view is that handguns are purely defensive weapons. They should never be considered for offensive use. Please understand that I am aware that the thugs and gang-bangers use handguns all the time as offensive weapons, but I'm not referencing the criminal element yet. I have had the advantage of being trained by the United States Marine Corps in the use of virtually every type of firearm that existed at the time of my initial training. They ranged from the M-14, Colt 1911A1, M-16, BAR, Thompson Sub Machine Gun, M1 Garand, AK-47 and SKS carbine, just to name a few. With all that training I understood the value of having a "stand off" weapon that would kill the enemy while keeping me at a safer distance. Imagine my concerns when I was trained as a radio operator and issued a .45 as my primary weapon! I'm going out into the bush carrying a pistol? Yikes!! But I'm getting far away from my point. Handguns and defense. I got an early out from the Corps so that I could become a cop. After six years as a sheriff's deputy, I moved on to a different career. I learned a lot as a cop. Most gunfights are at ten feet or less. Good technique is better than good sight picture. Get behind something....anything is better than standing in the open in a gunfight. You don't need a laser if you're shooting at ten feet. Instead you need to learn "instinctive" shooting so that your first round hits exactly where you are looking and that takes practice, lots of it.
I learned to carry a flashlight in a hand that was stretched out from my side so that an assailant couldn't simply fire at the light and hit me, so no flashlight on my pistol, rifle or shotgun. If you're going into a structure, take the shotgun. Use a shotgun with cylinder bore and a 16" barrel. You will hit your target even if you are firing from the waist. Bullets leaving the barrel of an AR-15 will travel through lots of walls and stuff with enough power to kill a person some distance away. AR's are perfect for taking out to the fields and forests to capture the bad guys, but are best kept in the hands of specially trained SWAT officers.
My conclusion: I carry concealed all the time. I am an old fat man and it's tough to find a way to carry a handgun concealed, but I've discovered "Belly band holsters" and I like 'em! I also carry a .380 Kel-Tec or a Ruger LCP. Remember, I'm all about defensive shooting and my "mouse guns" are lethal at ten feet! No laser on my mouse guns either!
I am also a target shooter. I used to compete in the OPOA (Oregon Peace Officers Assoc.) Police Combat matches. I did OK, but I really enjoy all forms of target shooting. There is certainly a place for lasers, flashlights, red dots. scopes, etc., but not on my handguns.
 
Ummmm....

My experience with actual testing of police duty pistol ammunition against AR expansive ammunition in wallboard showed the pistol rounds were FAR FAR FAR more penetrative than the rifle.


Perhaps you were shooting glazer slugs against AP?
 
Ummmm....

My experience with actual testing of police duty pistol ammunition against AR expansive ammunition in wallboard showed the pistol rounds were FAR FAR FAR more penetrative than the rifle.


Perhaps you were shooting glazer slugs against AP?


IIRC back in the 90's police departments across the country conducted tests 5.56 VS pistols and PCC like the MP5 and came to the same conclusion.
 
Or let's say you were too fat and lazy and or your ammo might not go through your windshield too good, just stick your arm out and Bob's your uncle.
 
Ummmm....

My experience with actual testing of police duty pistol ammunition against AR expansive ammunition in wallboard showed the pistol rounds were FAR FAR FAR more penetrative than the rifle.


Perhaps you were shooting glazer slugs against AP?
I'd have to see the test results. My comments are my opinion based on my experience in actual combat and in police work during the 60's. I'm sure there are arguments that can be made to support other views, but I don't want all that "stuff" hanging on a pistol.
 
Ya' see now we're getting away from my opinion and you've introduced bullet types, etc. into the conversation. I assure you that I've seen enemy combatants shot through the walls of buildings (concrete block) and the wounds were through and through. The U.S. Military isn't going to use any round that would be stopped by a wall made of plasterboard. So we're talking about apples and oranges, ballistic data and projectiles, not FMJ's in rifle and pistol cartridges and certainly not lasers.
 
I do not like carry pistol attachment stuff of any kind on my "get off me" CCW weapons. Snag hazards, added bulk and weight, etc.

I have a fat gut and I do like belly bands if I know I'll be walking but I like the Kangaroo Carry "deep conceal" shoulder holster too when I know I'm going to be stuck in a car seat. The draw takes some getting used to though.
 
Ummmm....

My experience with actual testing of police duty pistol ammunition against AR expansive ammunition in wallboard showed the pistol rounds were FAR FAR FAR more penetrative than the rifle.


Perhaps you were shooting glazer slugs against AP?
This is almost always true. Some bullet comps like Solid Copper and certain bonded rounds will have more penetration but generally at the velocity most AR rounds are shot, they fragment when hitting a hard surface/body.

Its one of the many reasons an AR is always a preferable to a shotgun or pistol for inside work.
 
I do not like carry pistol attachment stuff of any kind on my "get off me" CCW weapons. Snag hazards, added bulk and weight, etc.

I have a fat gut and I do like belly bands if I know I'll be walking but I like the Kangaroo Carry "deep conceal" shoulder holster too when I know I'm going to be stuck in a car seat. The draw takes some getting used to though.
I really prefer my "John Holmes" jock strap holster when I'm wearing my thong during the summer. I get a lot of special looks from the ladies. I think that they sense that they know their safe when the OldCorpGunny is strutting' by!
 
I can point shoot at short distances faster than having to acquire sights, the thing is, once a lot of practice is done, you learn how to point your gun to be on target without using the sights, the shorter the distance obviously the easier it is. Then the other thing is, once you have learned how to point the gun, you'll find when you bringing it up to your eye level it is already on target. Lasers have a purpose, but with a very limited scope of meaningful usefulness. I see a lot of people who have lasers spend more time trying to put the dot on the target then if they just shot it using the iron sights.

Infrared lasers with NV though... totally different ball game.
 
I do not like carry pistol attachment stuff of any kind on my "get off me" CCW weapons. Snag hazards, added bulk and weight, etc.

I have a fat gut and I do like belly bands if I know I'll be walking but I like the Kangaroo Carry "deep conceal" shoulder holster too when I know I'm going to be stuck in a car seat. The draw takes some getting used to though.
I don't like rails and stuff on my pistols either. My blaster Hi-Power did come with a CT laser.. I don't mind having it on there. It DID come with Xpress sights with a big dot front and I like that a lot.
 

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