National Is it legal for an FFL to separate and sell only the frame of a complete pistol?

[arakboss]

Can a gun shop legally separate and sell me the frame only from a complete pistol they have in inventory?

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[Jay Walk]

Good question, I do not believe FFL's are willing to sell you a firearm and later "claim" that they kept the mags.

I would like to purchase one of these because I have mags from a previous buy that will fit it.

New release does not come with ten rounders (yet)

 

[Nosferatu]

yes

 

[arakboss]

Good question, I do not believe FFL's are willing to sell you a firearm and later "claim" that they kept the mags.

I would like to purchase one of these because I have mags from a previous buy that will fit it.

New release does not come with ten rounders (yet)

Good point about mags I would have to buy frame and mags now and then buy the rest of the parts later. I just wondered if it would be a problem with their bound book since the firearm came in as a handgun but left as a frame?

 

[Yarome]

Can a gun shop legally separate and sell me the frame only from a complete pistol they have in inventory?

Absolutely!! Done all the time! They make more money parting out a pistol than they do selling it whole.

I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure a frame only on a pistol just goes off the books as a "pistol". The parts they retain become standard non FFL inventory.

 

[Jay Walk]

Where have you done it?

 

[Yarome]

Where have you done it?

"I" haven't bought just a serialized frame before, but I've bought other components that were new stripped parts and saw all their kit in the glass counters. They were very open about what they were doing. That particular brick and mortar sold most with the gun case, complete slide and OEM accessories as a "kit", then you could buy the mags loose or add a frame for a complete firearm.... but.... buying them ala carte would run you an extremely heafty premium over just buying an assembled firearm somewhere else.

Their business was centered around build kits and components.

It's not all that uncommon. Black phoenix customs, podium archery (used to but got out of it), granger tactical... and the list goes on. Some of them take it next level by selling stripped uppers, the upper parts as a kit and the barrel seperate as well. That allows you to mix and match stuff without paying for stuff you're going to swap out, anyway. The same with frames.

I'm not saying that all FFL's will part out a new firearm, but they could if they wanted to and some might. Some outfits it's their whole businss model. Parting new firearms for the increased profit per unit. Legal chop shops... I guess.

 

[Jay Walk]

New m&p metal only ships with 17 round mags.

Would like to purchase one new in WA without mags.

I should have made myself more clear.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Serialized part needs background check. Everything else no. So dealer can do they want with firearm and firearm parts. Not gonna get into was it originally manufactured as pistol, rifle, other cuz that will take any additional 184 pages of conjecture, conflicting opinions, posting snippets of atf laws and rulings etc etc. if that happens I will unwatch this thread as it's not worth the time (but I think you will likely chase it due to need for mental stimulation). Better to stick to one or two things instead of starting a thread for every thought that crosses your mind.

You don't have to water every plant otherwise you will end up with a tangled mess of weeds, likewise you don't have to water every thought.

 

[arakboss]

Here's the scenario I am considering proposing to an FFL who will honor the 3 day rule in regards to my background check wait time.

Let's pretend I want to buy four pistols that are $300 cash each but I only have $400 in cash and I only have a week or so left to make the purchases before Measure 114 deadline makes the 3 day rule unusable. I would like the FFL to separate the four frames and mags from the rest of the parts and sell me all four frames and all mags for $400. I want him to let me put all the uppers, other parts, etc on lay-a-way when I come in to pick up the frames. Before he hands me my frames, we will set up a lay-a-way schedule for the entire group of uppers other parts, accessories, etc. I will pay that off as the schedule requires. Once I pay that off I can reunite all the parts with the frames and have four pistols again.

The benefit for the FFL is that he brings in $1200 over a roughly two month period. He doesn't have to fill out a multiple sales form. He doesn't have to figure out what to do with the standard cap 11+ mags that were part of the pistol kits.

The benefit for me is that I was able to purchase four frames before the Dec 8th deadline, instead of buying one pistol. I acquired a good number of standard cap 11+ mags before the deadline. I don't have to worry about black helicopters flying over my house and nondescript vans parked out front because I bought multiple firearms in a week time period. I only paid one $10 background check fee.

Seems like a win win to me?

 

[arakboss]

"I" haven't bought just a serialized frame before, but I've bought other components that were new stripped parts and saw all their kit in the glass counters. They were very open about what they were doing. That particular brick and mortar sold most with the gun case, complete slide and OEM accessories as a "kit", then you could buy the mags loose or add a frame for a complete firearm.... but.... buying them ala carte would run you an extremely heafty premium over just buying an assembled firearm somewhere else.

Their business was centered around build kits and components.

It's not all that uncommon. Black phoenix customs, podium archery (used to but got out of it), granger tactical... and the list goes on. Some of them take it next level by selling stripped uppers, the upper parts as a kit and the barrel seperate as well. That allows you to mix and match stuff without paying for stuff you're going to swap out, anyway. The same with frames.

I'm not saying that all FFL's will part out a new firearm, but they could if they wanted to and some might. Some outfits it's their whole businss model. Parting new firearms for the increased profit per unit. Legal chop shops... I guess.

I think that was more common before all the aftermarket slides became available. I imagine some people still want the factory stuff but I think that market has shrunk considerably. Here are some factory upper parts kits still available.

Glock Compatible Build Kits | Shop Firearms Online | Rifle Supply

riflesupply.com

I frequently saw stripped factory glock frames for under $100.

 

[arakboss]

"I" haven't bought just a serialized frame before, but I've bought other components that were new stripped parts and saw all their kit in the glass counters. They were very open about what they were doing. That particular brick and mortar sold most with the gun case, complete slide and OEM accessories as a "kit", then you could buy the mags loose or add a frame for a complete firearm.... but.... buying them ala carte would run you an extremely heafty premium over just buying an assembled firearm somewhere else.

Their business was centered around build kits and components.

It's not all that uncommon. Black phoenix customs, podium archery (used to but got out of it), granger tactical... and the list goes on. Some of them take it next level by selling stripped uppers, the upper parts as a kit and the barrel seperate as well. That allows you to mix and match stuff without paying for stuff you're going to swap out, anyway. The same with frames.

I'm not saying that all FFL's will part out a new firearm, but they could if they wanted to and some might. Some outfits it's their whole businss model. Parting new firearms for the increased profit per unit. Legal chop shops... I guess.

I would like one of these kits but not for $450.

Glock 23 Gen 3 OEM Build Kit | 40 S&W Slide and Lower Parts Kit

Firearms, accessories, & replacement parts: Glock mags, AR15s, AR10s, rifle build kits, drum magazines, Sig Sauer Parts & more online! Call 714-841-1480

riflesupply.com

 

[Yarome]

I think that was more common before all the aftermarket slides became available. I imagine some people still want the factory stuff but I think that market has shrunk considerably. Here are some factory upper parts kits still available.

I frequently saw stripped factory glock frames for under $100.

I dunno. The market seems pretty split into 3 groups. Those that want cheap.. anything will do... clone stuff that is highly questionable. The "I want bling" group that is all 3rd party custom bling that costs a fortune (but highly questionable on performance mixing and mashing components, too). Then the, I want a reliable tool group that will only buy full on OEM.

IMO, there is a crap ton of 3rd party stuff with folks trying to cash in on the increase in popularity of PMF builders. That doesn't necessarity equate to a larger market share though. You just see a crap ton of it.

Sourcing OEM is more difficult. The source is limited and it's constantly in short supply due to such high demand. The prices rise accordingly.

I'm in the last group. I build tools... not bling... and I am less concerned about saving a buck under the ethos, "but it makes smoke... most of the time".

I think you're right that there are more in the first group than anything. Cheap is cheap and if it looks like it works... and it 'mostly" does... many seem perfectly happy with that.

I would like one of these kits but not for $450.

Glock 23 Gen 3 OEM Build Kit | 40 S&W Slide and Lower Parts Kit

Firearms, accessories, & replacement parts: Glock mags, AR15s, AR10s, rifle build kits, drum magazines, Sig Sauer Parts & more online! Call 714-841-1480

riflesupply.com

Yeah. The money is really in the slides, and no wonder why places part our new firearms, right! $400 is about the going full price rate for a new complete slide. A huny on a frame, 80 for a frame parts kit (more if you do extendeds), 30 per mag, another 30 for an OEM case. You're into it, base price... 700 for a $500 OEM pistol.

To keep it reasonable is basically taking your time and 'dealing" your way to a full pistol, but if you want to stay OEM, it's still going to be a challenge to keep it within only 50 bones more than an off the shelf.... "on paper". After all... $500 is really 500 + transfer + BCG + fuel, time, possibe frustration.... + big brothers book entry.

The nutshell... an OEM home build is, at best, about a wash from buying off the shelf if you're talkin green backs.

 

[wired]

Still a common thing with SIG pistols. Frames transfer as other. Legal.

 

[edzz]

New m&p metal only ships with 17 round mags.

Would like to purchase one new in WA without mags.

I should have made myself more clear.

FWIW
It's my understanding (possibly flawed) that the M&P metal uses different magazines than the standard M&P poly frame guns. Don't know if 10 rounders are even available for the metal frame.

 

[Ops]

dealer has to sell it to you as a pistol if he took it in as a pistol. even if its the frame since it was complete when it entered his store and should be in the bound book as such

 

[arakboss]

dealer has to sell it to you as a pistol if he took it in as a pistol. even if its the frame since it was complete when it entered his store and should be in the bound book as such

If this is correct, I may have to search for private party sellers who will sell frame and parts separately. That would greatly complicate the transactions and eliminate the transfer cost savings.

 

[No_Regerts]

Can a gun shop legally separate and sell me the frame only from a complete pistol they have in inventory?

Are you related to that magician that had a show where he told the world all of the magic secrets?

 

[arakboss]

Are you related to that magician that had a show where he told the world all of the magic secrets?

Yes.

 

[Yarome]

If this is correct, I may have to search for private party sellers who will sell frame and parts separately. That would greatly complicate the transactions and eliminate the transfer cost savings.

Uhhh... HU?? I'm missing the point, logic and conclusion there....