Is anyone else having buyers who are trying to go around the transfer laws?

[billdeserthills]

Aggree with most of what you're posting here but not the red text. BATF can and certainly has fabricated "evidence" to get someone they really wanted to take down. Once they have your gun they can do whatever they like and simply say it was confiscated in that condition. It's kind of like what Stalin said: "I don't care how the people vote, all that matters is who counts the votes"..

Less than a year ago the ATF busted a guy at the gun show. Turned out that over the preceding year he had legally aquired almost 350 guns. An FFL was used in every aquisition. This guy rented a couple of tables at the gun show and was legally selling a pert of his well-documented collection. ATF charged him with unlicensed business activity as he was selling a large amount of guns without an FFL. He did win his case, however he broke no laws, and yet he paid a small fortune to his attorney and never did get that kiss from the ATF.

 

[sadiesassy]

I have to agree with Baada- Many people may not be aware of the laws. I purchased a few guns over the past years - On my first - I did not understand why I needed to go through some FFL to buy a gun across the river in Washington. The seller educated me on the laws.

Bet you that there are lots of people who are selling – not knowing

As a seller _ I Can understand wanting to document the sale/transfer of a firearm - in case it is used in an illegal fashion.

But it sounds like there are a lot of people knowingly trying to bypass the law.

So Does the serial no information and current owner reside in some big database in Washington or is it a paperwork trail that gets thrown out? If you have owned a gun for 30 years - is it in there?

 

[deen_ad]

Why would you ever send a knife off to have it sharpened? That is a skill that every man should possess.

It's free for life on a BenchMade so why not take advantage of it once in a while? The blade on one of my BenchMade's is so hard that it has ruined one of my ceramic sharpeners.

Eight U.S. Presidents have been NRA members. They are: Ulysses S. Grant,
Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Dwight D. Eisenhower,
John F. Kennedy, Richard M. Nixon, Ronald Reagan and George Bush

80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

 

[Redcap]

It's free for life on a BenchMade so why not take advantage of it once in a while?

Didn't know that! In that case...I completely understand then!

 

[2Z4]

So Does the serial no information and current owner reside in some big database in Washington or is it a paperwork trail that gets thrown out? If you have owned a gun for 30 years - is it in there?

Yes. And 30 years isn't that far back really.

For those who believe what's going on here with folks trying to buy across state lines, etc - how many ATF special agents do you think there are in Oregon?

 

[deen_ad]

Yes. And 30 years isn't that far back really.

For those who believe what's going on here with folks trying to buy across state lines, etc - how many ATF special agents do you think there are in Oregon?

Too many or not enough depending on what they're trying to do!!

Eight U.S. Presidents have been NRA members. They are: Ulysses S. Grant,
Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Dwight D. Eisenhower,
John F. Kennedy, Richard M. Nixon, Ronald Reagan and George Bush

80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

 

[billdeserthills]

Too many or not enough depending on what they're trying to do!!

NO, the correct answer is TOO MANY,
But I'm sure I'm just preachin' to the choir on this one

 

[sadiesassy]

I am just surprised that the government would have data going back 30 years in some form of realtime data? vs in paperwork.

I wonder if my 50 year old shotgun is in some data base?

 

[billdeserthills]

Why are you suprised, the Gun Control Act was started in 1968?

 

[HysideHunter]

Hope this isn't too off-topic, but the OP posted about people trying to get around federal firearms laws, and many posters commented, with good cause, that it's prudent to require a WA (or the state you are in) Driver's License.

Hope folks don't forget that for the purpose of a firearms transfer, a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located. So they may have an out-of-state ID (because they have not changed their residency to WA) but are still considered a resident for this purpose. Smart military members always carry their orders to verify their status; never know when you'll see a good deal!

 

[Stomper]

That's wierd... unless things have changed since I was in (ETS'd in '93), you were a resident of your home state you enlisted at. I maintained an Oregon DL at my mom dad's address, and remember filing for the active duty income tax exemption Oregon has, plus voting for local Oregon elections while CONUS @ NSA/Ft. Meade, MD and while overseas. Perhaps my situation was different because I was a single (latter married/unaccompanied) guy with no kids that lived in the barracks and not in on-post or off-post housing?

 

[HysideHunter]

Stomper,
Without getting into a long discussion of residency and the military, in your case you remained an Oregon resident while serving in Maryland. For the purposes of firearms transactions, you were considered a resident of Maryland, but only because the 1968 GCA says so, and only for that purpose. So you could buy/sell firearms in Maryland as if you were a Maryland resident, but for all other purposes you remained a resident of Oregon.

HH

 

[Stomper]

...and could come back to Oregon while on leave and make "resident" purchases/sales as well (as if I had any spare cash back then to do that...LOL). So many, many layers!!

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[deen_ad]

If you have been served with a Domestic Violence, or other crime and have a restraining order against you, dose the state of Oregon immediately grab your CHL?
If you have a restraining order, you cannot legally have a CHL.
<broken link removed>
<broken link removed>

No idea about OR, but they're supposed to here in WA, the LEO's get a notice and show up at your door to collect the permit and all weapons they can find. So far as I know they don't need a search warranty either as the restraining order is enough.

Eight U.S. Presidents have been NRA members. They are: Ulysses S. Grant,
Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Dwight D. Eisenhower,
John F. Kennedy, Richard M. Nixon, Ronald Reagan and George Bush

80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

 

[tyk77781]

ya, they dont and technically they don't need search warrants for anything now with the patriot act and 2....Western Washington falls in the "Constitution Free Zone" which under the Patriot act 100 miles inward from borders and coasts are constitution free zones, which is 2/3rds of the population live on the coasts and boarders.... but I thought this was quite interesting......

 

[Smokey85]

If someone tries to buy a firearm across state lines and won't go through an ffl that should be a red flag right there, and #2 why wouldn't any good American have a CCW? Not trying to upset anyone but I don't think I would sell to someone without a CCW. At least then you know they can pass a background check (or did at the point when they applied for those splitting hairs) the ATF laws are kind of funky and can be construed/ interpreted in many ways so when in doubt contact your local aft office for clarification not local LEO as they may give false info. If your don't feel comfortable don't do it. Follow your gut, it may be wrong once in awhile but should keep you out of trouble if you follow these guidelines. From my experience the atf folks have been very polite and willing to answer any questions you may have. Keep in mind though they're federal and every state has their own laws as well. When in doubt ask around if you get ahead of yourself you may get in trouble so slow and steady wins the race lol, figured it would be appropriate with Easter coming up.

 

[billdeserthills]

If someone tries to buy a firearm across state lines and won't go through an ffl that should be a red flag right there, and #2 why wouldn't any good American have a CCW? Not trying to upset anyone but I don't think I would sell to someone without a CCW. At least then you know they can pass a background check (or did at the point when they applied for those splitting hairs) the ATF laws are kind of funky and can be construed/ interpreted in many ways so when in doubt contact your local aft office for clarification not local LEO as they may give false info. If your don't feel comfortable don't do it. Follow your gut, it may be wrong once in awhile but should keep you out of trouble if you follow these guidelines. From my experience the atf folks have been very polite and willing to answer any questions you may have. Keep in mind though they're federal and every state has their own laws as well. When in doubt ask around if you get ahead of yourself you may get in trouble so slow and steady wins the race lol, figured it would be appropriate with Easter coming up.

You would be making a large mistake to think that just because a person was once able to qualify for a ccw card, they are "good to go". There are many reasons why a ccw card can be withdrawn, however since the actual card has an expiration date it can be used as a "bearer instrument" until that date, even if it has officially been rescinded by the state.

 

[Grunwald]

I know that a some people require a CPL for private sales and will except nothing else. There was a discussion about this on another WA state gun board and I've pretty much had people tell me that I'm lazy or whatever, and had no excuse for not having one (CPL). Never mind the fact that I do not carry because I don't feel the need to, and I see no reason to takes a day off from work to go downtown Seattle for a paper shuffle.
It was also strange that some thought that my C&R FFL-03 was worthless to them. Just made me question their sanity. So a document issued by the big bad BATF has less value to them than one issued by the local police department or sheriff?? Makes no sense to me.