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Greetings,

I'll apologize in advance if I blow up the group again, but...

Is a chronograph useful in black powder load development? The plant that I work in is at about a 50%
slowdown right now so I'm loath to spend the $165.00+ on a chronograph & stand but, I was wondering
if it would be useful for load development.

From what I've learned about black powder its only about 50% efficient , that's part of why you get the big
cloud of smoke. And it has a habit of "rapidly diminishing returns" e.g. in a .54 cal. musket ,to make the math easy,
80 grains of FFG might get you 1000 fps; 90 grains might get you 1040 fps, and 100 grains might get you 1060 fps.
so 80 grains would be your most efficient load. Why have more recoil, smoke, noise & cost if you gain little?

Any thoughts, advice?

Blessings,
Longbeard
 
To me it would depend on what you are after vs the cost of the Chrono. If you are talking fun and target? Then of course it's trial and error to see what works best. Fun all the while too so no harm.
If you want to hunt? Then I can see why you want the most bang for the buck of course. If you don't want to invest the cash to see how the loads work speed wise maybe see what they do for penetration? That is of course easy and cheap to check. Along with of course making sure you are not sacrificing accuracy for a little more speed. All pretty easy to do on the cheap, not to mention just plain fun practice. Certainly would be nice to have the Chrono if the cash is not a hit to the wallet. If you don't want to spend the cash right now I can't see why you could not get pretty good info by trial and error on the cheap while having fun at the same time.
 
To me it would depend on what you are after vs the cost of the Chrono. If you are talking fun and target? Then of course it's trial and error to see what works best. Fun all the while too so no harm.
If you want to hunt? Then I can see why you want the most bang for the buck of course. If you don't want to invest the cash to see how the loads work speed wise maybe see what they do for penetration? That is of course easy and cheap to check. Along with of course making sure you are not sacrificing accuracy for a little more speed. All pretty easy to do on the cheap, not to mention just plain fun practice. Certainly would be nice to have the Chrono if the cash is not a hit to the wallet. If you don't want to spend the cash right now I can't see why you could not get pretty good info by trial and error on the cheap while having fun at the same time.
Thank you, I have some round balls and conicals in .54 and I'll start developing loads in a few weeks.
Longbeard
 
If you're talking RB, a chronograph won't help much. Ballistically, they suck so bad and slow down so fast you're just not going to be shooting very far with them. Same applies to most of the .54 conicals available today. You're just better off setting a target out there and blasting away

If you were trying to shoot long range with a Gibbs or Whitworth in long range competitions a chronograph might be justified, mostly to check consistency.
 
The best BP load is one that shoots consistently where you aim. A Chrony for BP is pretty much useless. I try to get My Ball or Minie Ball to crack after it leaves the barrel so its running at least 1100 fps if the gun is capable of the load to do it. I use 70 gr. ffg bp for 45 cal. 70 to 90 gr. ffg for 50 cal. , and 70 to 100 gr bp for 54 and 58 cal.
BP is more than 50% efficient as it explodes and over 98% of the powder is usually consumed , unlike smokeless that burns at various rates.
The Same measured weight of BP is going to shoot pretty much the same everytime all things being equal.
 
I have found that as a general rule :
Its good to start with a load that equals the caliber and go up or down from there.
For example a .54 caliber rifle would start at 54 grains of 2F...
My Hawken rifle in .54 shoots the best with 80 grains of 2F , so I stick with that for all of my shooting.

In my experience most rifles will shoot the best with 20-40 grains more than caliber...
So a good .50 caliber load would be between 50 and 90 grains...
Remember to round down 10% if you are using 3F...so a good .50 caliber 3F load would be 50-80 grains

Most original powder measures that I have seen , seem to bear this out...I'm pretty sure that Daniel Boone and Kit Carson didn't spend much thought on this.

At one time I wondered and worried about ballistic tables and chronograph numbers...but not any more...folks have been shooting and killing game without knowing either for hundreds of years , just by doing what I described above...if it worked then...it should work now as well.

And with all of that said...there are plenty of guys who do use a chronograph and ultra precise measurements of powder charges with perfectly miced round balls etc...but I like to shoot like Daniel Boone and Kit Carson...So none for me thanks...

Edit to add :
Two guys who did some studies on shooting are worth looking up and reading.
Walter Cline and his book The Muzzleloading Rifle Then and Now.
And Ned Roberts with The Muzzloading Caplock Rifle.

Both used tables , charts , formulas , chronographs etc...Ned Roberts 'cause he was a "Bench Shooter" ...Walter Cline 'cause he just like to know things...it is interesting to see and compare targets from the bench shooters to those who shoot from the bag...
There are plenty of good targets shown either way.

I shoot from the bag...its very casual ...but I get my game and have brought home many a ribbon....its more important to develop a system that works for you and use it all the time , than to worry 'bout whatever numbers that system , may produce.
Andy
 
In the old days... when I was knee high to a frog , the shooters put a round ball in their hand and just covered it with powder and that was the load they used.
The Long range BP shooters at Friendship Indiana matches are more concerned with bullet design of a consistent weight, and Lube used and then a consistent measure of Good Black powder like Old Eynsford or Swiss (No Pyrodex or crap like that) to shoot 1000 yards Competitions.
 
I have found that as a general rule :
Its good to start with a load that equals the caliber and go up or down from there.
For example a .54 caliber rifle would start at 54 grains of 2F...
My Hawken rifle in .54 shoots the best with 80 grains of 2F , so I stick with that for all of my shooting.

In my experience most rifles will shoot the best with 20-40 grains more than caliber...
So a good .50 caliber load would be between 50 and 90 grains...
Remember to round down 10% if you are using 3F...so a good .50 caliber 3F load would be 50-80 grains

Most original powder measures that I have seen , seem to bear this out...I'm pretty sure that Daniel Boone and Kit Carson didn't spend much thought on this.

At one time I wondered and worried about ballistic tables and chronograph numbers...but not any more...folks have been shooting and killing game without knowing either for hundreds of years , just by doing what I described above...if it worked then...it should work now as well.

And with all of that said...there are plenty of guys who do use a chronograph and ultra precise measurements of powder charges with perfectly miced round balls etc...but I like to shoot like Daniel Boone and Kit Carson...So none for me thanks...

Edit to add :
Two guys who did some studies on shooting are worth looking up and reading.
Walter Cline and his book The Muzzleloading Rifle Then and Now.
And Ned Roberts with The Muzzloading Caplock Rifle.

Both used tables , charts , formulas , chronographs etc...Ned Roberts 'cause he was a "Bench Shooter" ...Walter Cline 'cause he just like to know things...it is interesting to see and compare targets from the bench shooters to those who shoot from the bag...
There are plenty of good targets shown either way.

I shoot from the bag...its very casual ...but I get my game and have brought home many a ribbon....its more important to develop a system that works for you and use it all the time , than to worry 'bout whatever numbers that system , may produce.
Andy
Thank You, that saved me a lot of money to use on shot & powder.
L.B.
 
One great thing about BP, there are no mall ninjas.
Oh I wouldn't too sure of that...there is this guy out there...:eek::D
Andy
2015-6-5.InterlakeMountainManRendezvous.Andy.1815.JPG
 
When I got my 50 Cal @AndyinEverson .
Was teaching about it .
We started with 50 grains 2f
And just did a few shots then 60 then 70 .
Mine shoots best at 70 or 80.
But every once in a while I put 90 or 100 in it .
Just for fun.
Lol big boom and smoke is always a crowd pleaser HEHEE
 
I have a low-end chrono for testing purposes. Found it very enlightening when testing waterfowl loads for a Pedersoli double 10ga. (I-SAM or MEC wads & steel shot.) I assumed that I would be able to get a load to a "good velocity", maybe 1,200 fps or so. No matter how much powder (GOEX, Pyrodex), or reduction in load mass, I could not get average velocity over 1050 fps. After doing the math the "best" load combination has the "kill energy" equivalent to a 20ga 2.75" standard steel shot load.

Marsh evaluation proved the calculations about correct. I limit my shots to what I feel comfortable if using the old Mossberg 20ga bolt action. Shooting with MUCH greater STYLE than if using the Mossberg, of course. (Better'n Beretta, Browning, Win, Rem, ...) Regardless, I learned clearly that although it reads "10 gauge" on the Pedersoli, it is no Ithaca Mag10.

A shooter's got to know their limits.
 
That's the reason I prefer using the heavier non-toxic (like heavy-shot) when it's required. Just works better than steel at the lower velocities. Expensive as hell, but its not like I'm burning thru a bunch of it with a muzzleloader.
 

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