Oregon IP43 is back...but worse.

[NW Backpacker]

If it fails it doesn't give anyone ammo against us for anything. A failed initiative doesn't set any kind of precedent that can be pointed at or used to support a legal argument.

The "BS" that you mentioned wasn't written by the AG, it was a court decision (State v Kessler) that actually answers the argument that the arms protected by the Oregon constitution are only the arms suitable for militia use. The decision pointed out that the Oregon constitution protects a larger range of firearms, including those suitable for self-defense.

"If the text and purpose of the constitutional guarantee relied exclusively on the preference for a militia "for defense of the State," then the term "arms" most likely would include only the modern day equivalents of the weapons used by colonial militiamen. The Oregon provision, however, guarantees a right to bear arms "for defense of themselves, and the State." The term "arms" in our constitution therefore would include weapons commonly used for either purpose, even if a particular weapon is unlikely to be used as a militia weapon."



No, I don't think that was their intention. In fact, they specifically didn't want to threaten current gun control because opponents of IP 008 would use that to scare away voters by claiming it would nullify current gun control.

You have to remember the tactical situation we are in. We are trying to pass a measure that would do something very important - prevent bans on semiauto firearms and standard capacity magazines, which are under the most threat of a ban - in a very blue state. If we try to do too much more it would have ZERO chance of passing in blue Oregon. The gun owners who whine that IP 008 doesn't protect NFA items that are not under imminent threat of a ban the way ARs, AKs, and "large cap" magazines are just don't get it.

Thanks for the education. If I'm here when it's on the ballot, I'll be voting for it enthusiastically! We need to stack that ballot with other items that might attract folks who are on our side, and if possible, run good 3rd party liberal candidates to steal votes from the Ds.

 

[rscinsc]

people who voted 3rd party can thank themselves for this when it becomes law.

just sayin.

First, people have the right to vote as they choose....not as you think
2nd, You are without a clue: do the math
Oregon Governor Election Results

The progressive party is the far left party, if only 2 candidates they would have voted Brown. Even if Knute would have gotten 100% of third party votes, he would have still been short

Just sayin

Don't let the facts get in the way of the narrative

 

[No_Regerts]

First, people have the right to vote as they choose....not as you think
2nd, You are without a clue: do the math
Oregon Governor Election Results

The progressive party is the far left party, if only 2 candidates they would have voted Brown. Even if Knute would have gotten 100% of third party votes, he would have still been short

Just sayin

Don't let the facts get in the way of the narrative

Blah blah blah

 

[arakboss]

I don't know how many people follow the Oregon Firearms Advocates page on facebook. I also saw this posted and on the Clackamas County Community Criminal watch page. Apparently the writers of IP43 have been hard at work rewriting a new ballot measure but with get this 5 round capacity limits....

Below is what was posted on the Facebook page;

Shared from Oregon Firearm Advocates:

"I just want to remind you that people like penny okamoto (cease fire oregon) and people behind "lift every voice" have used their time off from ip43 to refine and rewrite their original bill proposal.

They have expressed support for changing the language of anything greater than a 10rd magazine (as a high capacity magazine) to a 5 ROUND MAGAZINE.

I WILL SAY THAT AGAIN.....THEY WANT TO BAN MAGAZINES AND ANY NON TUBULAR FED FIREARM GREATER THAN 22LR THAT HOLDS......MORE THAN 5 RDS.

I wish I was making this up. I have personally debated this with her, in relation to revolvers and making them into "assault weapons" as some have larger cylinders than 5 rds. She is unwavering and feels that standard is reasonable.

The new bill from the ashes of IP43 will be even more restrictive and more outrageous. With the results of this election cycle it is quite obvious they have more than enough democratic supporters to get their 100k signatures and democrats have Republicans beat in registered voters and voter turnout percentages. With what we currently have to fight with, this new antigun bill will pass.....unless you can get every disenfranchised lazy indifferent gun owner to care about what is going to happen. I have myself posted over and over again what the Democrats are trying to do with banning firearms and I have several pro gun associates who dont even know if they are registered to vote or know what is on the ballot. Oregon is being lost because of voter indifference and ignorance."

I might as well move to Canada.

 

[rscinsc]

This!! When are people going to get it through there thick skulls that third party voting is like dropping the soap in the shower!!! You get bubblegumed in the bubblegum!!

Maybe you should look at the math, third parties made no difference

 

[No_Regerts]

Maybe you should look at the math, third parties made no difference

Ok, so they don't get ALL the blame.

 

[Ura-Ki]

All the math in the world dosnt account for the jackasses who didn't even bother to vote, so besides the third party vote jackasss, you have a a lot more blame to spread around!

 

[CountryGent]

If the IP fails then the Oregon Legislature and Governor will make it happen. There is nothing - zip, zero, nada - preventing them from overreach or the consequences of doing so.

I'll fight this as much as I can and donate funds where they will be most effective, but I'm pretty pessimistic. As they say "Please Change My Mind".

Indeed, with the solid majorities they have in the legislation, and a reelected Brown, there is nothing stopping them from doing everything they want. A few weeks ago I heard an interview with some of the Democrat leadership in the legislation about their plans come 2019. The whole interview could have been boiled down to "a blizzard of new taxes and gun control."

Like you, I will continue to do whatever I can to forestall further erosion of our rights and property, but I am not even remotely optimistic about our prospects in this state.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Most Washatonians & Oregonians are oblivious to the thought that they are being Kalifornicatored, therefore unless we wake them SOB's up then our fate is sealed.

 

[arakboss]

Most Washatonians & Oregonians are oblivious to the thought that they are being Kalifornicatored, therefore unless we wake them SOB's up then our fate is sealed.

What if they aren't oblivious but they actually welcome the Kalifornification?

 

[Caveman Jim]

What if they aren't oblivious but they actually welcome the Kalifornification?

I'm not talking about those who will commit to it, I'm talking about those who don't know about it because they have their head buried in the sand, mainly own bolt-action rifles, revolvers and think that more gun laws are needed to deter mass shootings to keep our community safe.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

A felon on supervised probation robs a mini-mart and executes two citizens under the bridges in Portland with a 45auto, and they think that more gun laws are gong to put a stop to it. Man accused of Portland murders was under Washington supervision

We need violent felon control, not gun control.

 

[GlockFan1990]

A few weeks ago I heard an interview with some of the Democrat leadership in the legislation about their plans come 2019. The whole interview could have been boiled down to "a blizzard of new taxes and gun control."

Where they specific on what kind of gun control they are planning?

 

[CountryGent]

Where they specific on what kind of gun control they are planning?

Beyond bandying about the phrases "assault weapons" and "gun safety", I don't recall any specifics (e.g., magazine limits, models, etc) being directly mentioned. Though it is, clearly, on their agenda. Most of the interview was about revenue and climate change, both of which they planned to address with taxes.

 

[rscinsc]

This isn't a case of "bolt action' gun owners not paying attention...this is simply a demographic issue.
Oregon and Washington are no longer "purple"...they are fully Blue. The large populations of King and Multnomah counties simply have too many votes. I doubt most of the Blue voters in these counties have ever fired a gun.
The only recourse is the federal courts, and they won't be much help. They can delay the inevitable, CA has given the gun-grabbers a blue print, and they will use those provisions in OR & WA in the next election cycle.

Personally, I am bugging out back to the SE US (Idaho, Montana and Utah are too cold)...NV will be the next to fall. Interviews planned as I write this.
The demographics are against us (and Trump certainly does not help. The mid-terms just proved that Trump drives away middle of the road voters). My only hope is that we can hold the US Senate in 2020 and the democratic President (in 2020) will be disliked enough to hold the Senate in 2022. I also hope that a couple of RINO senators don't flip on the 2A.

 

[nammac]

Indeed, with the solid majorities they have in the legislation, and a reelected Brown, there is nothing stopping them from doing everything they want. A few weeks ago I heard an interview with some of the Democrat leadership in the legislation about their plans come 2019. The whole interview could have been boiled down to "a blizzard of new taxes and gun control."

Like you, I will continue to do whatever I can to forestall further erosion of our rights and property, but I am not even remotely optimistic about our prospects in this state.

There's one more solution to the problem, but it'll be ugly and messy... I fully expect more midnight legislation that further taxes is and erodes our Constitutional Rights...

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

We need some sound bytes like this

Reporter: Why did the officers shoot him 13 times?

Police spokes person: Because that was how many times it took.

Holy cow, found it in today's headlines:

Livingston fired five times. Britt fired seven times. Both officers, who were armed with 9mm Glock handguns, testified that they stopped firing once Kimmons dropped to the ground.

"He still had that gun in his right hand … I'm trained to essentially address and neutralize that threat," Livingston said. "When I saw him start to go to the ground and I saw the gun drop, at that point, my reassessment says, 'Okay. We now have addressed that.'"

Both officers testified that they thought they'd get shot if they didn't shoot at Kimmons.

 

[SUPER X]

I don't know how many people follow the Oregon Firearms Advocates page on facebook. I also saw this posted and on the Clackamas County Community Criminal watch page. Apparently the writers of IP43 have been hard at work rewriting a new ballot measure but with get this 5 round capacity limits....

Below is what was posted on the Facebook page;

Shared from Oregon Firearm Advocates:

"I just want to remind you that people like penny okamoto (cease fire oregon) and people behind "lift every voice" have used their time off from ip43 to refine and rewrite their original bill proposal.

They have expressed support for changing the language of anything greater than a 10rd magazine (as a high capacity magazine) to a 5 ROUND MAGAZINE.

I WILL SAY THAT AGAIN.....THEY WANT TO BAN MAGAZINES AND ANY NON TUBULAR FED FIREARM GREATER THAN 22LR THAT HOLDS......MORE THAN 5 RDS.

I wish I was making this up. I have personally debated this with her, in relation to revolvers and making them into "assault weapons" as some have larger cylinders than 5 rds. She is unwavering and feels that standard is reasonable.

The new bill from the ashes of IP43 will be even more restrictive and more outrageous. With the results of this election cycle it is quite obvious they have more than enough democratic supporters to get their 100k signatures and democrats have Republicans beat in registered voters and voter turnout percentages. With what we currently have to fight with, this new antigun bill will pass.....unless you can get every disenfranchised lazy indifferent gun owner to care about what is going to happen. I have myself posted over and over again what the Democrats are trying to do with banning firearms and I have several pro gun associates who dont even know if they are registered to vote or know what is on the ballot. Oregon is being lost because of voter indifference and ignorance."

I spoke with 2 Gun owners that did not even vote that was in IP 1639 territory . If people that own guns don't get together for 1 cause .Their will be no reason to even have a forum ,

 

[arakboss]

I spoke with 2 Gun owners that did not even vote that was in IP 1639 territory . If people that own guns don't get together for 1 cause .Their will be no reason to even have a forum ,

I disagree, we can visit the forum for post like "Remember when we could own real guns?" and "Show your nerf gun pics" or "How much is tax stamp for bb gun?"

 

[E4mafia]

I disagree, we can visit the forum for post like "Remember when we could own real guns?" and "Show your nerf gun pics" or "How much is tax stamp for bb gun?"

Could we own airsoft? or would that be highly regulated? I mean they do have large magazine capacities and can shatter glass.