Oregon IP17 &18 FAQ Webpage

[arakboss]

Imagine if a sympathetic anti-gun group created a companion Initiative Petition in Oregon that was similar to the Texas Abortion law. It would allow tattle tales to sue those individuals and businesses (with no risk) if they believed that persons or business were violating the laws proposed in IP17 and IP18. Do you think that would create more urgency among firearm owners and businesses to defeat the Initiative Petitions?

IP17 and IP18 are only the first
of what LEVO has in store for us.

During Monday's proceedings, Kavanaugh continued to test the state's perception of the limits of its own law. He posed a hypothetical directly tied to gun ownership rights.

"Say everyone who sells an AR-15 is liable for a million dollars to any citizen," he began asking Texas' lawyer. "Would that kind of law be exempt from pre-enforcement review in federal court?"

Texas Solicitor General Judd Stone, after some waffling, answered yes: The courts have no ability to overturn this type of enforcement....

 

[Aero Denezol]

I'm late to the discussion here but I think Oregon Push Back did a good job at getting signage out last time around. The same people who put Oregon Push Back signs on their property might be willing to do it again.

IMO I think it was successful because it was a call to react ("push back") to an incursion and I would stick with the same message. The message has to be simple: We are under attack, people want to take your property. Voters will connect the dots come ballot time.

#TimberUnity did a very good job at pushing back against Portland elitists. I saw them when they came through Salem and it was impressive.

 

[arakboss]

I'm late to the discussion here but I think Oregon Push Back did a good job at getting signage out last time around. The same people who put Oregon Push Back signs on their property might be willing to do it again.

IMO I think it was successful because it was a call to react ("push back") to an incursion and I would stick with the same message. The message has to be simple: We are under attack, people want to take your property. Voters will connect the dots come ballot time.

#TimberUnity did a very good job at pushing back against Portland elitists. I saw them when they came through Salem and it was impressive.

I agree with signage along I5. As with normal politics we have those who are strongly on one side of this issue and others who are on the other side. Then you have that sliver in the middle. Besides raising awareness of the issue with those who are on our side we need to convince that sliver in the middle (who may support some gun control) that these IPs are too extreme. Those in the middle are going to be the toughest nut to crack. Any ideas for slogan type messages to target that sliver in the middle?

 

[arakboss]

I agree with signage along I5. As with normal politics we have those who are strongly on one side of this issue and others who are on the other side. Then you have that sliver in the middle. Besides raising awareness of the issue with those who are on our side we need to convince that sliver in the middle (who may support some gun control) that these IPs are too extreme. Those in the middle are going to be the toughest nut to crack. Any ideas for slogan type messages to target that sliver in the middle?

As for what type of messaging to use, here is an article from a gun hating org discussing how the NRA has been successful with their messaging (maybe not so much lately). I am not so sure the freedom messaging will work on that middle group but the self defense message may work given how much crime their has been lately and how poor the LE enforcement has been.

Guns, Lies, and Fear

The National Rifle Association uses messaging strategies employed by dictators and demagogues to advance its gun rights narrative within the United States.

www.americanprogress.org

 

[arakboss]

I agree with signage along I5. As with normal politics we have those who are strongly on one side of this issue and others who are on the other side. Then you have that sliver in the middle. Besides raising awareness of the issue with those who are on our side we need to convince that sliver in the middle (who may support some gun control) that these IPs are too extreme. Those in the middle are going to be the toughest nut to crack. Any ideas for slogan type messages to target that sliver in the middle?

I am amazed something like this is allowed to be on the NIH website but there may be some nuggets in here to help form messaging:

Is gun control really about people control?

The Second Amendment of the USA Constitution states: “A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Today around the USA and the world ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Gun Control Is People Control"

 

[arakboss]

If I am understanding this info correctly is claims to show that most gun control doesn't work as intended.

What Science Tells Us About the Effects of Gun Policies

There are significant gaps in the available research on the effects of gun policies. However, the strongest evidence suggests laws aimed at preventing children from accessing guns would reduce firearm self-harm, and unintentional injuries and deaths among children.

www.rand.org

 

[arakboss]

LEVO Wants You Here


Vote No On
IP17 and IP18

 

[AshWilliams]

The next person who tells me, "We're not coming for your guns." Is going to get throat punched.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

Might I suggest getting in touch with the sheriff's of each county and get their input on what these bills would do? Granted, you probably don't want to visit with the sheriff of Multnomah county or those of similar ilk, but I'd wager you'd have over 85% of Oregon's sheriffs against this proposed legislation.

 

[Aero Denezol]

The next person who tells me, "We're not coming for your guns." Is going to get throat punched.

Yup. "Nobody wants to take away your guns", they say.

What if I limit your car to 15 mph and say "nobody wants to take your car".

Logic doesn't work on these people. They hate us and what we stand for and they want us muzzled. Plain and simple.

 

[GrayGoose]

What if I limit your car to 15 mph and say "nobody wants to take your car".

"Hell yes, we're going to take your car, your truck..."

 

[arakboss]

I am going to be doing some alternative style activism around the State and elsewhere (not here) on the web to raise awareness of and help drum up support to fight gun restrictions in this State. If you think you recognize me, please do not say hi. And know that what I am doing, is to protect our firearm freedoms, despite how it may look.

Hopefully my activities will raise a much larger group to counter me.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Can we challenge IP 17 based on the Single Subject Rule?

In Oregon, each proposed Ballot Measure must address only one subject.

Laws governing the initiative process in Oregon

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

IP 17 contains two subjects: 1) Permit to Purchase firearms, and 2) Magazine capacity limits.

http://oregonvotes.org/irr/2022/017text.pdf

 

[DivCurlGrad72]

Can we challenge IP 17 based on the Single Subject Rule?

I wondered the same thing, but knowing how the powers that be here in OR interpret law to reach the desired outcome, they'll just say it is one subject: guns.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

I wondered the same thing, but knowing how the powers that be here in OR interpret law to reach the desired outcome, they'll just say it is one subject: guns.

It is clearly two. The licensing of a Constitutional Right and equipment limitations.

It would be like saying all adults, even if they already have a license to drive (CHL), must take a new live driving course in order to purchase a new to you vehicle. Also, because high power vehicles are so dangerous, all new vehicles in Oregon are limited to 3.0 liters of engine displacement, except for police and government because they have special rights. Also, it you already happen to own a vehicle with an engine larger than 3.0 liters, you can only drive it on your own property or a race track. And if you do take it to the track the vehicle has to be transported locked with an empty gas tank.

 

[DivCurlGrad72]

It is clearly two. The licensing of a Constitutional Right and equipment limitations.

I agree, and so would any reasonable person without an anti-gun agenda. Nice car analogy by the way.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

I agree, and so would any reasonable person without an anti-gun agenda. Nice car analogy by the way.

Thanks. I ran it by my wife first and she said, "But the crazies in Portland want you to take public transport everywhere and not own a car"

 

[arakboss]

Can we challenge IP 17 based on the Single Subject Rule?

In Oregon, each proposed Ballot Measure must address only one subject.

Laws governing the initiative process in Oregon

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

IP 17 contains two subjects: 1) Permit to Purchase firearms, and 2) Magazine capacity limits.

http://oregonvotes.org/irr/2022/017text.pdf

I thought the same thing but I assumed they would have already done that if they could have? I am wondering if that fact the subjects deal with firearms that is good enough to allow them as one subject?

So if IP17 was requiring a permit to purchase and bannning use of gas powered lawn equipment that would be a no no but the permit to purchase and mag ban gets a pass?

 

[arakboss]

I have offered up $20 month through the end of 2022 to help Ash cover costs for website. I am a smooth brain when it comes to this technology stuff. I will be sending him some questions and answers but I know he will want more to choose from than I offer up. Hopefully members here will be able to provide him with more.

I am going to be shifting gears and hanging out with some gun haters for awhile so I won't be bothering you guys as much. This is not because my support for our freedoms has changed but because I think I can do more to motivate 2A supporters by hanging out with the 2A haters.

I also have a bunch more weight to lose so I don't have to hand over four of my precious guns to @spookshack and @LDmax.
I have been spending way too much time banging the keyboard and spending gobs of money on great deals.

I am going to try and visit NWFA on a weekly basis instead of many times a day everyday.

This not a farewell just a heads up so you don't think the Vid got me.

Edit: And remember no matter how it may appear, I am a 2A supporter for life.

 

[arakboss]

When it comes to gun control measures, there are basically three types of voters.

1. Voters who will vote for every gun control measure.

2. Voters who will vote against every gun control measure.

3. Then there are voters who will look at the measure and decide if it is "reasonable" gun control or too restrictive.

There is not a group of voters who will look at a gun control measure and say "that measure is not restrictive enough so I am not going to vote for it."

Keep that in mind when you are deciding how to portray IP17 and IP18. With gun control measures the worst case interpretation is likely the right interpretation.