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Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by gehrheart, Oct 27, 2012.
An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power
I tend to agree with his general conclusions. Handguns are for when you can't carry a long gun and a way to fight your way back to your long gun
One glaring problem with his data that popped right out at me was the shotgun part.. he did not specify what types of loads were in his samples. I imagine a lot of those shoots were with birdshot, which is generally a very poor manstopper. I've never heard of anyone squarely hit in the torso with full power 12 GA buckshot who was not quickly incapacitated. They either fall down right there, or reel away to fall down a short distance away
A good 1.5oz #4 shot Goose or Turkey load will do some serious messing with a center mass shot. especially at the under 20ft range if used inside the average home.
Interesting read. As always shot placement means more than the bullet used.
Maybe, maybe not if they are wearing heavy clothing. I trust only buckshot and slugs
It has always been about shot placement. That's why you want to practice with small targets.
1.5 onces of #4 shot in the chest from 10-20 ft will be spread out about 3 to 6" at the most. I have no doubt unless they are wearing 4-5 Navy Pea coats they are going to be a MESSit will go right through 1.5" of plywood easy enough.
Many instances of a heavy leather jacket stopping small shot enough to stop it or keep it from deep penetration. There's a reason it's called birdshot
Many instances of a heavy leather jacket detering small shot enough to stop it or keep it from deep penetration. There's a reason it's called birdshot
This is a test at box o truth.. here is his comments on birdshot for self defense
The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1
ancedotal information would actually be useful if there was any details given like range and load
Yep...what you said.
How can you know the exact range or your opponent's possible medicated state or clothing in advance? It's your life and family..
But tell me which police dept issues birdshot ?
by information from the autopsey or the police report, I suppose.
By then your body may be laying alongside your attacker. I prefer immediate cessation of hostilities
Shot placement is great for snipers... it's not realistic for an impromptu close range gunfight with a moving target.
This. I know shot placement is important but who is a crack shot in the dark after being awakened by the "thump in the night"?
Certainly not me, but it's still something to practice and strive for. I would expect an arm wound to be less incapacitating than something roughly COM. Missing altogether would probably have even less effect, usually.
Maybe I need a new drill - I could take a nap at the pistol range and have a buddy wake me up by pounding on a board or something. Measure elapsed time to a COM hit on a silhouette target. What could possibly go wrong? Relax, I'm a professional.
Thank you for posting this. I read it a long time ago and I've tried to present it, but I keep getting shouted down by the "light, fast" crowd. I have no idea why gunners are so fixated on kinetic energy when there are other equally valuable metrics of bullet performance, like momentum, cross-sectional (areal) density, and wound-channel volume.
I'm not taking anything away from kinetic energy, but it's not the be-all-end-all measure of terminal ballistics.
Two in the thoracic cavity, easy for anyone who shoots with any frequency, is pretty easy. That's how I judge any defensive load. If it will stop you with two rounds to thoracic almost all the time, I call it good.
For the times they DON'T stop an attacker, this is why we have FAILURE DRILLs. Those are for the rare exception, not the rule. Think about it: If I put two rounds of .380 into your chest, how bad are you gonna want to continue to pursue that attack?
FACT: It's VANISHING rare for a homeowner who employs lethal defense against invaders to be shot. It happens, but it is EXTREMELY rare.
Figure your odds and go from there.
That's usually because the defender is operating in very well known conditions and surroundings.. home turf. This is one reason why most invasions of countries fail
But lots of people have been hit with more powerful calibers than a little .380 and continued to fight. Home invaders are usually cowards attempting a smash, grab and run, not a shootout