Interesting Meeting with Newbies Today

[etrain16]

@etrain16 - good job! And, that is a good example for all of us.




There are other resources to leave them with, such has Mas Ayoob's books and the OFF book.
Although they were out doing an update.
http://smile.amazon.com/Understandi...15&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=oregon+firearms+laws

Good points, thanks!

 

[tac]

Here in yUK, with a population approaching 65 MILLION people, only around 3000 people are licensed to carry a handgun for personal protection.

Every single one of them lives in Northern Ireland.

This is the the legacy of almost thirty years of urban and rural terrorism carried out by Republican terrorists of the Provisional IRA and their ilk. The 'carriers' are serving and retired members of the police and army, judiciary and prison services, all of whom were targetted by these people during the so-called 'Troubles'.

With the vast majority of the entire population of the UK having never seen a real firearm, let alone handled one, people here are in the same boat as those folks in the OP's first post, and in fact, most people are just not gun-minded in any way. Those who are lucky enough to have friends who shoot might get encouraged to go along on a guest day, which is where they will be introduced to many different kinds of UK-legal firearms, and get to shoot them, just to see what it's all about. I never fail to point out that nothing happens with any firearm unless they make it happen, and after some basic instruction, move on from there with one of my seven .22cal rifles. Others in our club, MANY others, truth be told, do the same, and the result is a steady influx of new members coming on line. Shooting sports of all kinds are the largest-growing individual sporting activity in the entire UK.

It is not a lie when I tell you that not a single person who has ever handled a firearm on an open day here at our club has admitted that they had a bad experience shooting for the first time in their lives. A while back we had one guest, in his late sixties, who was pretty much heart-broken that it had taken him all that time before getting up the nerve to try it out, and deeply regretted having waited so long. He now has around ten or more rifles, and shoots in the 1500 matches and benchrest.

tac

 

[PaulB47]

Some, including myself do not have the funds to attend all the classes, so that part of becoming educated and experienced would likely never come.

It's all right. Here's a little secret: learning about guns is not that hard after all. Particularly if you are satisfied with something simple, like a revolver.

Firearms, like any other area of human interest, gets filled with jargon and other behavior that is obtuse to outsiders. Don't let it bother you. Read a few books, watch a few youtubes, and go out in the woods on your own, doing some shooting. Find an old fart to give you some pointers. You'll be fine.

Most people do not understand that the vast majority of the utility of owning a gun, can be harvested merely by having one. A criminal is not going to stop and ask you where you trained, if you haul a gun out of your pocket. He is most likely just going to scoot.

You get a gun to protect yourself from criminals. You get a permit to protect yourself from the state.

 

[2A2Dend]

I've plenty of experience with firearms. I want to adapt from scenario driven, stressful situations to imprint the mind. Given quick response mentally, to "flick" the switch given the situation. A mock-up having the criteria as I mention, they seem to be LE based and not available to outsiders. If classes are available, they're out of my sensible income range and generally WAY out of reach in distance. Given the area of such a place that is beneficial for such training, I'd offer to donate my time, knowledge and other useful skills to help for the cause, perhaps to build, to better preparedness for all interested in the group. A private, like-minded place, where like-minded people can come together and share. I keep talking and it sounds like a citizen based boot camp. HA!

 

[CoastRange57]

Either way, I'm simply doing my best to encourage them. I'm happy to give them some training myself, primarily in gun safety and proper gun handling. But I think others would be better with technique. At least in their situation, they are open to training classes, and I believe they do have the means to pay for the classes should they desire to take them.

I commend your outreach to these people, and you efforts to teach them. I also commend your recognition that others may better for the in certain aspects of it and agree 100% with you.

I have not heard a lot about the head game part of the learning process in these posts. I know in your other post you mentioned that you asked them is they thought they could pull the trigger when they had too, and you said they said yes. I submit this was a canned reaction from them, they think they can, but they simply have not had enough training or experience in firearms and self defense to formulate that decision this early in the game.

Oregon's CC classes are a joke. Youth hunters safety have more content than the classes required to get a CC. Basic firearm handling, and very basic at that, with absolutely no training on threat assessment, situational analysis and assessment.

I have worked with some cherries before, and I always try to get them in the head game first. There are some great written resources out there that should be mandatory reading before any of them touch a gun, much less start a training course. They need to understand the types of people and threats they may encounter and how to process those threats. They need to be taught that deadly force is the last resort, when all else has failed, when escalation of verbal commands have not worked, or situations where you may need to go to deadly force immediately. They need to be taught command presence and dominate behavior. Just getting a gun, being able to reload it and being able to get a few rounds in the 7 circle means nothing.

They need to be able to switch from Sunday school teacher behavior to full on bubblegum yelling " GET THE F AWAY FROM ME NOW!!", and do that in nano seconds. They need to understand 30 foot rules

They need to understand what effect adrenhelin (sp I know) has on your body and your reactions. If a person has the money to buy a new firearm and head down this route, they have the resources to run some training scenarios at Threat Dynamics and truly get a better understanding of the head game side of all this. Once that is basically understood, then you can bring in the gun handling, the technique, and the variants of all that. The gun, its handling and use is secondary to the understanding of human and criminal behavior, and how to react to it. Understanding of ROE is critical.

People need to understand that this is a new way of thinking and living, and that you simply do not decide one day to " get a gun" and flip the behavior switch and POOF....it all falls into line.

 

[2A2Dend]

I'm going to respond. Partly due to I feel (in part) it's directed to my earlier comments.
No debate. What you say makes complete and total sense. However, Threat Dynamics is not offered in Washington State. I'm more than willing to look into things. I need a centralized (Olympia, Wa) starting point within the area. My firearms I'm comfortable with. Given the scenarios, God only knows how they'll play. I trust my judgment in awareness of others and what goes through their heads. What they could do or go to in frame of mind. My awareness about people in general guide me in direction. A lot plays on common sense and rationalization. Many factors to keep in consideration. The classes would teach control to lead, rather than follow.

 

[etrain16]

I commend your outreach to these people, and you efforts to teach them. I also commend your recognition that others may better for the in certain aspects of it and agree 100% with you.

I have not heard a lot about the head game part of the learning process in these posts. I know in your other post you mentioned that you asked them is they thought they could pull the trigger when they had too, and you said they said yes. I submit this was a canned reaction from them, they think they can, but they simply have not had enough training or experience in firearms and self defense to formulate that decision this early in the game.

Oregon's CC classes are a joke. Youth hunters safety have more content than the classes required to get a CC. Basic firearm handling, and very basic at that, with absolutely no training on threat assessment, situational analysis and assessment.

I have worked with some cherries before, and I always try to get them in the head game first. There are some great written resources out there that should be mandatory reading before any of them touch a gun, much less start a training course. They need to understand the types of people and threats they may encounter and how to process those threats. They need to be taught that deadly force is the last resort, when all else has failed, when escalation of verbal commands have not worked, or situations where you may need to go to deadly force immediately. They need to be taught command presence and dominate behavior. Just getting a gun, being able to reload it and being able to get a few rounds in the 7 circle means nothing.

They need to be able to switch from Sunday school teacher behavior to full on bubblegum yelling " GET THE F AWAY FROM ME NOW!!", and do that in nano seconds. They need to understand 30 foot rules

They need to understand what effect adrenhelin (sp I know) has on your body and your reactions. If a person has the money to buy a new firearm and head down this route, they have the resources to run some training scenarios at Threat Dynamics and truly get a better understanding of the head game side of all this. Once that is basically understood, then you can bring in the gun handling, the technique, and the variants of all that. The gun, its handling and use is secondary to the understanding of human and criminal behavior, and how to react to it. Understanding of ROE is critical.

People need to understand that this is a new way of thinking and living, and that you simply do not decide one day to " get a gun" and flip the behavior switch and POOF....it all falls into line.

I agree with what you have to say. My assessment from our initial discussion is that these folks have already done some serious thinking about what it means to consider owning a gun, and the consequences of using them. They are newbs to guns, but they take protecting their family very seriously, as was evidenced by other things in their home, etc. They are also preppers, not exactly big time SHTF types, but they have put time and effort into preparing for things like the big one and they're finding that they're missing out on the 'protect ourselves from others' part of the equation.

Going along with your suggestion, I actually did point them the direction of Threat Dynamics, and that's something they are certainly open to.

As to the mindset, everyone has to come to that point themselves, and it should come with serious thought, not only as to the "can I do it", but also to the consequences that come after the fact.

No doubt we'll be talking more about this as time passes. For now, we're just getting them started down the road. I don't expect them to buy a gun for a while yet, but I'm happy to help inform them as best I can along the way.

 

[CoastRange57]

As to the mindset, everyone has to come to that point themselves, and it should come with serious thought, not only as to the "can I do it", but also to the consequences that come after the fact.

No doubt we'll be talking more about this as time passes. For now, we're just getting them started down the road. I don't expect them to buy a gun for a while yet, but I'm happy to help inform them as best I can along the way.

It is good they are at that stating point and not waiting for that seminal event to happen an your mind getting all FUBAR over that. You are completely correct, everyone has to reach that point on their own schedule. For me it was way back in high school, and for a short period where I was studying criminal justice. Although I never pursued LE as a career, I did some PI work and recoveries for a couple of banks.

I had a business and had a young man who I had to terminate due to his attitude towards the customers and public. He came back and knocked on my door late that night and said he was there to f me and my family up. I never saw somebody's eyes get so big when he looked at the working end of my nickel plated .357.

Keep on guiding them down the self defense road, you are doing your part in protecting our society and supporting our Constitution.