Interesting carjack video - benefit of in-the-pocket carry?

[ilikegunspdx]

Obviously good guy could have done a lot to prevent getting in this situation, but for the sake of argument let's assume everything before the 6:30 point of the video couldn't have changed. At the 6:30 point is where bad guy is distracted and that is the point I'm interested in discussing if a pocket carry would have been a big benefit.

At the 6:30 mark the bad guy has the drop on the good guy and good guy just threw his keys on ground to distract bad guy. Then bad guy is onto good guy's distraction tactic and tells good guy to show him he is not armed before bad guy picks up keys. Good guy lifts shirt to show bad guy he is not armed (note that good guy could have had his hip hidden from bad guy and still hid belt carry gun if it was a very deep carry holster where gun was not visible but let's assume he didn't have that deep carry hokster). After bad guy sees that he is unarmed, bad guy let's down his guard and looks away to pick up the keys.

It seems to me if good guy had a pocket carry only, or pocket carry gun in addition to belt carry gun, he would have had a lot of options at that point where bad guy was distracted. Good guy could draw and fire the pocket gun after bad guy looks away or when bad guy stoops to pick up keys. He could retreat behind little silver car and fire. If he had belt carry (let's assume it was visible to bad guy) he could toss that belt carry gun on ground making a second distraction tactic and still be able to draw and fire the pocket gun when opportunity presents itself. Any thoughts?

Point where bad guy is distracted:

Here is the video:

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[Alexx1401]

My take? Is it really worth staring a shoot out over the vehicle? Notice scum had no problems touching off rounds at rock thrower. Where are those rounds going? If scum hits some kid, would the owner think it was worth getting the scum to fire? If owner had gun, and pulled it, would he be able to drop the scum before the scum could also fire? Doubt it. So again if you have two people touching off rounds and either of them hits someone else was it worth it? I know it burns the butt to see scum run off with property but, when someone chooses to start a gun fight they have to be willing to accept if things go bad. After its over with if some innocent is hit, will it be worth it?

 

[American123]

Seems like moving out of a crap hole country / city is the best defense against these.

 

[P7M13]

I like the chances of my arm chair MP-5.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Seems like moving out of a crap hole country / city is the best defense against these.

True that. I've been witness to 2 armed car jackings in PDX the last couple years, and not in bad neighborhoods either. And that is before crime quadrupled.

 

[Alexx1401]

True that. I've been witness to 2 armed car jackings in PDX the last couple years, and not in bad neighborhoods either. And that is before crime quadrupled.

Needs to start happening to the "elite" rule makers. Then you will see some actually try to do something if they get a call from their spouse saying some armed scum just took off with their vehicle at gun point.

 

[Certaindeaf]

My take? Is it really worth staring a shoot out over the vehicle? Notice scum had no problems touching off rounds at rock thrower. Where are those rounds going? If scum hits some kid, would the owner think it was worth getting the scum to fire? If owner had gun, and pulled it, would he be able to drop the scum before the scum could also fire? Doubt it. So again if you have two people touching off rounds and either of them hits someone else was it worth it? I know it burns the butt to see scum run off with property but, when someone chooses to start a gun fight they have to be willing to accept if things go bad. After its over with if some innocent is hit, will it be worth it?

No kidding. Lucky to get away alive.. then starts throwing ROCKS?
lol

 

[RVTECH]

Hopefully the carjacker rolls it, gets trapped and it catches fire........

 

[Ghoul]

Woulda, couda, shoulda,....
I also notice the victim is wearing flipflops.
You ain't ready to work a situation in flipflops, your just ready to get worked.

 

[Alexx1401]

Woulda, couda, shoulda,....
I also notice the victim is wearing flipflops.
You ain't ready to work a situation in flipflops, your just ready to get worked.

VERY few people, even people who carry, always leave the house dressed for battle. I know I do not want to walk around in all my gear all the time.
I often will wear what are "around the house" slippers kind of thing if I have to run to the market. If someone points a gun at me and wants my vehicle I would let them have it and walk away. I can buy another vehicle. Now if they wanted me and the vehicle? Then I would be looking for the first chance to pop them since I do have a gun even when wearing my slippers.

 

[Ghoul]

VERY few people, even people who carry, always leave the house dressed for battle. I know I do not want to walk around in all my gear all the time.
I often will wear what are "around the house" slippers kind of thing if I have to run to the market. If someone points a gun at me and wants my vehicle I would let them have it and walk away. I can buy another vehicle. Now if they wanted me and the vehicle? Then I would be looking for the first chance to pop them since I do have a gun even when wearing my slippers.

I am one of the few and I only wear boots.
If I have to go to the store I also throw on my plate carrier and some deuce gear, along with my boots.
Its always a right time for boots.

 

[American123]

I am one of the few and I only wear boots.
If I have to go to the store I also throw on my plate carrier and some deuce gear, along with my boots.
Its always a right time for boots.

What type of plates?

 

[Alexx1401]

I am one of the few and I only wear boots.
If I have to go to the store I also throw on my plate carrier and some deuce gear, along with my boots.
Its always a right time for boots.

Hey nothing wrong with that if you wish too. I have in my life known a couple people who NEVER left home without a "serious" gun. One old guy who I am sure is gone now always carried a Mod.27 and he was scary good with it. No matter the heat, he dressed so he could carry it. That's great but, most of us just will not do that, me included. I always have something but, often it's far from ideal. Most who preach not carrying "mouse guns" find that in real life they often leave the house with no gun. That quick trip to buy milk or such. Sadly you never know when that one time will be that you needed something.
I for a long time had a Star .40 Firestar. This was before the CC market really took off. Guy I first saw with one carried his in a damn ankle holster. It was his "back up". Again nothing wrong with that but few will always do that.

 

[Ghoul]

What type of plates?

IIIA steel

 

[ScatPackLife]

Needs to start happening to the "elite" rule makers. Then you will see some actually try to do something if they get a call from their spouse saying some armed scum just took off with their vehicle at gun point.

They would just use that as fuel to make more gun laws.

 

[Ghoul]

Hey nothing wrong with that if you wish too. I have in my life known a couple people who NEVER left home without a "serious" gun. One old guy who I am sure is gone now always carried a Mod.27 and he was scary good with it. No matter the heat, he dressed so he could carry it. That's great but, most of us just will not do that, me included. I always have something but, often it's far from ideal. Most who preach not carrying "mouse guns" find that in real life they often leave the house with no gun. That quick trip to buy milk or such. Sadly you never know when that one time will be that you needed something.
I for a long time had a Star .40 Firestar. This was before the CC market really took off. Guy I first saw with one carried his in a damn ankle holster. It was his "back up". Again nothing wrong with that but few will always do that.

Different strokes to rule the world.

 

[L84Cabo]

Ban dangerous "Assault Rocks!" NOBODY needs an Assault Rock!

In all seriousness...

Could a pocket gun have changed the situation? Sure...MAYBE.

Drawing from the drop (when the bad guy already has a gun on you), is NEVER a good situation to be in. Even if you do manage to get a shot or two off there is still a high percentage that you're going to get shot. Pocket gun calibers are not the most effective rounds and unless you pop him in the head, there's a good chance he may put rounds back on you.

It begs the question...if it appears like all the dude is after is the car...is it worth it taking the chance? If you think he's going to shoot you regardless, then obviously that is a different situation. Otherwise, no amount of "stuff" is worth dying over.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Sounds like not much interest in discussing benefit of a pocket gun (I was thinking pocket 9mm) which is totally fine, so what about discussing prevention options in this situation, looking at the entire situation/video? I think all u guys are right that his focus was on the car rather than his life.

It seems to me this guy was in "yellow" (ie unspecific awareness - referring to Col. Jeff Cooper's 4 color system) from his time of parking onward. Like Jeff Cooper said, it is like radar continuously scanning looking for something that might possibly be a threat.
Then when walking from his car the first time he noticed something was off in the environment (i.e. orange, a specific possible threat). The guy walking towards him that looked suspicious is what he noticed. And so he turned around and went back to his car. He had situational awareness, to a point, but it was all focused on protecting the car it seems. When he went back to the car he made sure it was really, really, locked ha ha, rather than focusing on protecting himself.

It seems to me when he went back to the car he could have got in (even passenger side is better than nothing) and locked the doors. At least he would have "some" cover.

...a side note Re "cover"...those of us used to firearms know what "cover" the vehicle provides and hopefully where there is effective cover (ie engine block) but I often wonder if crims know that. Would they just shoot through the door? It seems at the very least it would slow him down?

Anyway getting in the vehicle and locking doors "might" buy a little time, might have given him a means to escape if he moved to driver's side, and possibly ability to use vehicle as a weapon. Maybe him being on cell phone inside car would be somewhat of a deterrent too (probably not I'm guessing though). If he had a piece in the car that would have been ideal (since he didn't have one on his person I mean). But he seemed satisfied that vehicle was locked and that was enough. Seems like he kind of dropped from "orange" after re-checking the car when really he should have stayed in orange and been preparing for a possible "red".

Then after bad guy was pointing gun at him it almost seems like when he threw the keys on the ground he was acting on emotion to not lose the car (ie make it harder for the thief to get his keys to take the car. That is not a real obstacle of course but maybe that was his way to "resist" losing his new car. That same distraction tactic of throwing the keys would be great if it was a means to get to some better position/option, like draw and fire, head for cover and fire, or simply run away.

Then of course the rock throwing seems to be frustration that he actually was going to lose his car. Must have been pure emotion/frustration at that point to do something so foolish I'm guessing.

I think the whole thing is interesting having witnessed a couple attempted carjackings go down in PDX recently. Both of them happened so fast! And of course dissecting this video after the fact is armchair quarterbacking and there is no personal emotion involved. But the more of these we see and discuss the more prepared we will be if it should happen to us.

It might be worthwhile to have a running thread in this subforum along the lines of "what would you do?" to discuss what the best options might have been in various real -world situations that happened (where we have good video I mean). Some of these situations we might run into in today's crime climate. The guy in Walmart in Redmond Wa? a couple years back comes to mind. He shot the glass to ammo section, took ammo, and then shot others on his way to carjacking a getaway car.

 

[wjv]

What type of plates?

Corelle® Winter Frost White