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I know these petitions are useless, but 22,500+ have signed supporting these scums impeachment in less than 24 hours.

Might be the start of some real pushback.


Tell them to make it a real hardcopy petition rather than Quixotic internet vaporware and I'll sign, not that it'll go anywhere. Also, they'll get more mileage if they make guns not the driving issue, but just a big one of MANY reasons Seattle is overdue for a good hard punch in the nose. :)
 
When are people going to wake up and realize every time you vote your literally voting for expanding government. Left wing and right wing come from the same bird. Your being tricked.
This is the perplexing mentality of silencing yourself in order to not participate, which results in Dems taking over entire states.

You're NEVER going to get a perfect candidate on a ticket. And waiting decade after decade for it results in massive encroachments in that timeframe.

When it comes to guns there's two viable options: Rs and Ds.

Rs are not perfect, but by and large the generally preserve gun rights and rarely target them. From representatives to presidents to governors to Judges. Look at the records. The worst gun control, the worst gun law cases, and the worst legislation comes from Ds.

It's absolutely STUPID to silence yourself.
 
I never said dont vote. All I said is when you vote, your being tricked in the current 2 party system. Which is rigged to gradually loose freedom and expand government only.
Really, and what better system of GOVERNMENT is there.

VOTING is the best way to hold leaders to account. If you don't vote, you forfeit and don't participate, yet still have to live under their rules. So you may as well pick the best one....
 
Really, and what better system of GOVERNMENT is there.

VOTING is the best way to hold leaders to account. If you don't vote, you forfeit and don't participate, yet still have to live under their rules. So you may as well pick the best one....

And what have the right-wing, conservative, Constitution loving, gun owners in WA state have to show for it? They still pass whatever they want. Microsoft, Amazon, and Seattle bringing in tons of leftists. WA is the new CA.
 
We have no other choice. Telling people it's "rigged" and such is just a great way to get more gun owners to throw up their hands and not bother. Often the "better choice" is not much better but, there is always a better choice. If we can get gun people to vote in block for a while we could make real change. It will not happen in one election but doing nothing is what got us the mess we have now.

Exactly. I argued at length in 2016 over Hillary/Trump. I was obviously for Trump and voted for him. Many gun owners gave the same "what difference does it make" nonsense.

Turns out Trump has not been perfect but I can say he's been the best President in my lifetime since Carter... Imagine if we had gotten Hillary!? And yet GUN OWNERS couldn't be bothered to vote. 1/2 of them in Washington alone because "we can't win" defeatist mentality. It's sooooo infuriating.
 
And what have the right-wing, conservative, Constitution loving, gun owners in WA state have to show for it? They still pass whatever they want. Microsoft, Amazon, and Seattle bringing in tons of leftists. WA is the new CA.

50% of the people don't vote in Washington because of your same defeatist attitude. I'm confident there's enough gun owners in those several million non-voting adults to carry the state if they'd just VOTE>
 
If one wants one or some, sure!

As an investment? Absolutely not (even noting your sarcasm/humor).

They are not very useful, range toy aside, and the value simply is not there. Compare pricing on drums, vs "standard capacity" magazines of whatever platform, in whatever capacity.
...

We will have to wait to see what is in the bills, but I would guess that they will try to make them as restrictive as possible without running up against the compensation provisions of the 5A. For example, the law could grandfather in any mags that exceed 10 rounds, but prohibit you from selling them. The SCOTUS many years ago approved a similar law regarding bald/golden eagle feathers or parts. At one time you could buy and sell such bird parts -- then Congress passed a law that said you couldn't trade in them anymore but could keep what you already had prior to the law's passage. People who felt their once valuable bird relics were now worth nothing, complained on 5A grounds that the government had taken value from them and they should get compensation for that lost value. SCOTUS ruled it wasn't enough of a taking to warrant compensation even though before the law, such bird bits were worth good money, and after the law, they were worth nothing aside from prison time for selling them. Andrus v. Allard, 444 U.S. 51 (1979)

The problem in the CA mag ban case, and a point on which Judge Benitez ruled in favor of the mag owners, was that the CA law was a complete taking of the mags. Unlike the bird part collectors of yesteryear, Californians can't even put their mags up on the mantle for people to look at even if they can't be sold.

So, before running out and buying a bunch of drum mags as an investment, wait to see what is in the law. The language will be out there to read long before it is passed.
 
So, before running out and buying a bunch of drum mags as an investment, wait to see what is in the law. The language will be out there to read long before it is passed.

I wouldn't buy any drum mags, nor really want them. Like bump stocks, they are a novelty of little real world use. They're overpriced for what they are. They're really bulky and make the rifle unwieldy. They are less reliable. And someone with some skill can actually use traditional mags better than a drum mag.

For $100 you can get 10 30 round mags (300 rounds) or 1 drum (100 rounds). They lay flat, and are easier to transport, load, and use the weapon in all but fixed positions. With a drum mag, literally all your eggs are in one basket, so if round #1 jams, or your drum breaks open and dumps, you lose 100 rounds. Contrast that with if 1 of your 10 magazines fails, you've still got 270 rounds left. So from a usefulness, cost, capacity standard the 30 round mags are obviously better.

10 mags is also easier to cache them or distribute them to allies.

For later resale if that's the plan, there's far more profit to be had in 10 easily divisible mags. During Sandy Hook I recall those mags going for $100 each. So that would be $1000 in this scenario. No way you'd get $1000 for 1 drum mag.

I digress.
 
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Sadly, based on what I've seen happening here for the last several years I doubt it. I dont know exactly what our problem is, probably a combination of things like complacency and lack of free time(because most of us actually work for a living) but, we just never show up like the anti 2a do. I get so frustrated because I know a lot of gun guys who flat out refuse to watch or listen to the news because they dont trust it, so they have no idea what's going on.

The ANTI GUN/ANTI FREEDOM people have large crowds and media exposure!

The anti gun RELIGIOUS LEADERS from MANY religions are SJW wolves ready to DESTROY AMERICA! They are a bunch of salami LIARS and people think that they are so NICE and for peace. LOL

They and anti gun NON religious folks want to burn the Constitution, BAN/RESTRICT guns/ammunition, want EVERYONE TO VOTE including illegal aliens aka CRIMINALS, are for OPEN BORDERS, amnesty, no vetting, higher taxes and tons more!

Those people want to SHUT YOU UP, CALL YOU VILE NAMES and if they can't kill you outright - they will KILL your lifestyle and the CONSTITUTION OF THIS REPUBLIC.

Fact not fiction. They come from ALL political parties too!

Many gun people are their own worst enemies! FACT.

You see it in person, in gun stores, in the news, and all across all types of forums on the WWWeb.

They are pretty dense when it comes to other issues in the news from the R, L and middle of the road too. They only pay attention to one or two stations if that and don't read much from ALL sources too.

They are literally clueless in many new, existing or proposed new gun laws, gun restrictions, gun bans, ammunition restrictions and possible but most likely future reloading bans/restrictions.

I hope that MONTANA gun people pay attention to the NEW and upcoming 2020 anti gun proposals and anti gun/anti freedom ballots when it comes to PRIVATE gun sales and tons more.

NO thanks to our AG in this state who happens to be a R and is running for GOVERNOR. He did not nip a lot of dung in the bud when he could have in this college town. I am not rewriting all of his screw ups all over again. I am not rewriting what went on here for over 2 years either.

People can VOTE but in many places they are outnumbered!

The sad thing is that we really do have a POPULATION OF PEOPLE who may or may not OWN GUNS and are just plain ILL INFORMED about GUN and many other issues in this country.

It is pathetic to see!

Take care.

Cate
 
FWIW, I sent the link for the petition to MANY on my contacts list. Group message form. Most replied, signed, done, etc. Once they replied, I removed them from the group message. Some replied with, who is this? | Why do I need to sign? | I'm not signing it | Please do not contact me. Those type of responses really made me wonder if they even cared what has been, and IS going on.

All in all, my message notified friends and relatives (all over the state) of the petition in a hurry.

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For ANYONE that doesn't believe "your" elected people aren't after something... take a look at these. Just because some of these didn't get passed before doesn't mean it won't get submitted again. Worse part is how MANY OF THESE are at the request of ferguson.

Not all of these are bad.
HB1649 by Klippert...

but others are real stinkers..
SSB5174...:s0066:
HB2103...Mehh.. o_O
HB1439... :s0054:
I'll leave the others for you to decide..

Dan

Bills that have passed the Legislature are shown in bold text with an * preceding them.
Aiming or discharge of a firearm or dangerous weapon, unlawful, provisions: HB 1541
Ammunition, large capacity magazines, prohibitions: HB 1068, SHB 1068, HB 1286, SB 5062, SSB 5062, SB 5340
Ammunition, lead, selling/giving to person under 21: HB 1346
Animal control officers, carrying firearms: SB 5016
Assault rifles, semiautomatic, sale/transfer, safety training exemption, when: HB 1511, HB 2202
Assault rifles, semiautomatic, sale/transfer, safety training requirements: HB 1511
Assault weapons and large capacity magazines, prohibitions: HB 1286, SB 5340
Background checks, confidential health care information: HB 1097
Background checks, exemptions, concealed pistol licensee transfers: HB 1649
Background checks, people's defense of the Second Amendment act of 2019: HB 2103
Background checks, single or full point of contact system for: HB 1949, *SHB 1949, CH 35 (2019)
Bump-fire stock buy-back program, modifying: SB 5954, *SSB 5954, CH 9 (2019)
Bump-fire stock buy-back program, participants' personal information: HB 2182, *SB 6025, CH 239 (2019)
Bump-fire stock buy-back program, SB 6025 concerning, authorizing consideration of: *SCR 8406 (2019)
Clay targets, sales and use tax exemptions: SB 5726
Colleges, community and technical, safety officer weapons: SB 5150
Deadly weapon sentencing enhancements, provisions: HB 1153
Force, with firearm discharge, use by officers and security guards, reporting: SB 5916
Forfeited firearms, destruction by state patrol: HB 1010, SHB 1010
Forfeited firearms, disposing of, by law enforcement agencies: HB 1671
Gun clubs, nonprofit, clay target sales and use tax exemptions for: SB 5726
Legislators introducing bills concerning firearms, training for: SB 5172
Lost or stolen firearms, reporting requirements: HB 1203
Open carrying of firearms, at public meetings, municipality restricting of: HB 1319
People's defense of the Second Amendment act of 2019: HB 2103
Pistols, concealed pistol licensees, background check exemption, when: HB 1649
Pistols, concealed, carrying into another's residence, prohibition: HB 1439
Pistols, delivery of, requirements: *EHB 1465, CH 244 (2019)
Pistols, license for concealed, applications and safety training program: SSB 5174
Pistols, license for concealed, applications, proficiency, and instructors: HB 1315, SB 5174
Pistols, license for concealed, background check requirements: HB 1464, *SB 5508, CH 249 (2019)
Pistols, license for concealed, exemption for correctional employees, when: * HB 1589, CH 231 (2019)
Pistols, license for concealed, firearm possession in certain places, exemptions: HB 2124
Pistols, license for concealed, in cases of domestic violence: HB 1225, * SHB 1225, CH 367 (2019)
Pistols, license for concealed, process for renewal by law enforcement: * HB 1934, CH 135 (2019)
Pistols, license for concealed, removing as requirement for pistol delivery: *EHB 1465, CH 244 (2019)
Pistols, license for concealed, surrendering due to protection order violation: HB 1541
Pistols, license for concealed, surrendering due to various orders requiring: HB 1786, *SHB 1786, CH 245 (2019)
Pistols, transfer and/or sale records database, prohibiting: HB 1022, HB 1024
Possession by juvenile, unlawful, interventions and sentences for: HB 1855
Possession, by person incompetent to stand trial, prohibiting: *SB 5205, CH 248 (2019)
Possession, on child care center premises, prohibitions: ESSB 5434
Possession, on child care center, library, or park premises, prohibitions: HB 1530, SB 5434
Possession, on school grounds by employees, when: HB 1038, HB 1763, SB 5977
Possession, prohibition after release from mental health evaluation: SB 5181, * SSB 5181, CH 247 (2019)
Possession, unlawful, in second degree, various provisions: HB 1541
Protection order violations, firearm surrendering and prohibitions due to: HB 1541
Protection orders, extreme risk, against person under 18: SB 5072
Protection orders, extreme risk, grounds for: HB 2196, SB 5745, SSB 5745
Protection orders, extreme risk, under federal law, enforcement prohibition: HB 2196
Protection orders, extreme risk, various provisions: HB 1774, SB 5027, * ESSB 5027, CH 246 (2019)
Purchase and possession, lowering required age for: HB 2103
Regulation of firearms, local government authority: HB 1374
Regulation of firearms, state preemption of, repealing: HB 1374
Repealing various firearms provisions: HB 1097, HB 1098
Seizing firearms and ammunition, due to domestic violence incident: HB 1225, * SHB 1225, CH 367 (2019), SB 5143, SSB 5143
Sentencing enhancements for firearms, with body armor possession: SB 5050
Sexually violent predators, deadly weapon delivery by unmanned aircraft to: HB 1381
Storage and security of firearms, requirements and penalties: HB 1098
Suicide, awareness and prevention materials for firearms dealers: HB 1648, SHB 1648
Surrendering firearms, protection order violation under parentage act: HB 1541
Surrendering firearms, protection, no-contact, or restraining orders requiring: HB 1786, *SHB 1786, CH 245 (2019)
Target shooting, on DNR-managed lands: SB 5099, SSB 5099
Undetectable or untraceable firearms, prohibitions: HB 1073, HB 1739, * SHB 1739, CH 243 (2019), SB 5061, SSB 5061
 

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